john banks

Hi guys.

I fitted an STi 5 ECU and reprogrammed that merely for the reason that if the guy doesn't like it he can have his original P1 ECU back. If I reprogram an ECU and then put it back to standard I have to pay for a license anyway. If I reprogram my own ECU I can hang onto it for the next one. Just practicality nothing fancy.

On the road it was not showing the same boost behaviour as the dyno - no surprises there.

P1 and STi 5/6 boost targets are: 15.7 PSI up to 5400 and then 14.6 PSI. So the dip is where expected and it is more a shelf than a smooth drop.

When knock is detected, fuel is added, ignition is retarded, and then if the the amount of retard is greater than a certain threshold for a certain time then boost is cut.

[Edited by john banks - 9/1/2002 2:08:00 PM]

john banks

Mike's car was going well this evening - 19 PSI held in the midrange, dropping to 17.5 at 7000 RPM - I would estimate flywheel power now to now be increased about 35-45 BHP, and 25-35 lbft extra in the midrange, but getting two runs in comparative conditions can be tricky. Certainly the look of the airflow data is extremely encouraging. We smoothed out the fuelling, sorted out all the flat spots and hesitations. No negative knock correction at all. A few +0.5 degree advances sporadically. Incidentally, on the P1 there did not seem to be any particular reward for going over 7000 RPM.

P1 Enthusiast YHM.

[Edited by john banks - 9/2/2002 6:00:11 PM]

Mike G

We've had a P1 for around 3 months and had the de-cat downpipe and up-rated brakes done.

Recently we took the car on Star's rolling road then phoned John to ask if he could do anything with it to get a bit more bhp - here are the results.

1st run shows the figures before John did anyting.

1st Run
P-norm 293.5bhp
P-eng 277.0bhp
P-wheel 175.5bhp
P-drag 101.5bhp
Torque 267lbf-ft
Intake 0.8-1.0 bar dipping at high revs

2nd Run
P-norm 299.0bhp
P-eng 282.0bhp
P-wheel 205.0bhp
P-drag 77.0bhp
Torque 283lbf-ft
Intake Steady 1.2bar at high revs


The car feels so good above 3,500 revs and Johns not finished. He's fitted an STI-5 ECU and re-mapped to suit. Spent around 4 hours on Friday in terrible weather and has still to make a few tweaks to get the car just right - all on the basis that if I'm not happy he'll replace the original ECU at no cost. I only took the car on the RR to confirm the difference was physical and not just my imagination.

I would like to personally thank John for his patience and Jim at Star for fitting me in at short notice and intend running the car again with a modified mid/end pipe plus a Dawes.

A very happy,

Mike G

[Edited by Mike G - 8/31/2002 8:10:30 PM]

LG John

He knows his stuff huh

Mike G

Saxo,

I am really impressed with John, I knew him when I had a UK300 and he always offers sound advice.

I've been on this board since I got the P1 and look out for your posts, some are very funny (apart from the recent incident which we won't mention but I'm glad you got sorted).

Mike G

Pavlo

indeed, it seems he magically removed some transmission losses!

the wheels figure tells a story, must be getting the power at lower revs to do that.

Paul

Claudius

Doesnt it?

Mike G

Pavlo/Claudius,

I'm not too hot on mechanics so don't know what you mean, please explain.

Mike G

PS
I have the graphs if you'd like to tell me how to upload.

LG John

Cheers Mike, where about in scotland you at?

Claudius I noticed that too. Figured he just inflated the tyres or something. Maybe he took some WD40 to the wheel bearings to reduce friction The lengths some people will go....

Mike G

Saxo,

I stay in Fife and know some people in Local Government over your way through my work.

Sorry m8 but some of the replies on this go way over my head so I won't comment further. Just after some usefull info since I don't know too much about cars and rely on the likes of JB to point me in the right direction - thought that this was what the site was about.

I have met some really good guys at the few events i've been to (Dougster, Rice Rocket aka Jamie Oliver, Scottish Menace, Tecnopete...) and hopefully we'll meet up soon.

Regards,

Mike

LG John

Hope so, I'd love to have a good sniff around a P1.....:drool:

See you around. The best place for the technical stuff is 'general technical' and more so 'drivetrain' but be warned a lot of it is very technical and difficult to follow as a lot of the lads/lassies on this site really know their stuff.

john banks

The figures are quite interesting

This dyno seems to give the most consistent figures between power at wheels figures.

By remapping I have reduced transmission losses and made virtually no difference to flywheel yeah right Funny, normally the other way around

Whatever the car seems to go well on the road, and +29.5 PaW (+17%) for an initial map with conservative boost on a car with pretty on-edge fuelling and timing to start with is pleasing. Not an ideal set of dyno figures for comparison though I agree.

At least the torque went up a bit 17lbft, but as the man says I am not finished yet.

A properly configured AP 22 seems the most consistent? Just underlines my faith in rolling road results maybe not.

Shame because the headline figure at flywheel could easily have been 305 BHP which on this dyno would be quite nice since it is no the most optimistic in the world. Maybe next time

[Edited by john banks - 9/1/2002 2:31:58 AM]

Trout...

"Fitted an Sti V ECU"...

...doesn't a P1 already have an STi V ECU...John...indeed it was you who told us the only difference was the knock sensitivity

Trout

C

Think you may be right trout.

When I took mine out apparently it was identical to an sti 5 ecu. But on the wiring loom there was a couple of little Prodrive boxes tapped in.

I think the general agreement was they are only minor things like speed delimiter etc. (i didnt have a clue I just nodded my head in agreement )

Chris

AlanG

I may be wrong but if IIRC this car ran 1.0 bar boost until about 5000ish rpm then dropped immediately to 0.8 bar rather than a gradual drop off of boost as you would expect at the top end.

Did you find out why this happened? or does the P1 do this as std? Did the change in ECU show up a difference in boost control?


A

C

Alan,

Who's car are you referring to?

Chris

C

General about the P1 it's supposed to have a gradual reduction in boost (according to Mike Wood). 1 bar sounds about right tho when standard.

Mine was upped to 1.3 bar - at the time it was hard to tell what was going on as my boost guage was under-reading. they only come with a 2 bar map sensor as standard so stick a 3 bar one in would probably help?

However mine was a link 10 row ecu, so a little different than the above one.

Felt bloody good when done, so much stronger through the gears!

Chris

AlanG

Mike's car.

It was at Star performance last Sunday. The boost curve on the dyno sheet showed an immediate drop from 1.0bar to 0.8 bar at around 5000rpm or thereabouts.

Just thought it was a bit odd and wondered if it was the ECU which had pulled it back for whatever reason.
Since John has had a look at the car, I wondered if he came acrosss anything.

A

C

Ah ok!

Does seem a little odd, mine never dropped immediately, as you say a gradual reduction...

Seems strange that the ecu would pull back boost tho.. or am i being stupid?

It couldn't be overboost could it? - thinking about that, surely there would be a spike on the graph?

Chris

AlanG

I thought it may have been down to air temps but didn't see any other car with TMIC having this problem on the day and some ran more boost than Mike's.

Certainly though, air temps on top mounts were worryingly high on the rollers. Anything up to 90 degrees were seen but it was a warm day.

Alan

Trout...

The standard two bar Map sensor seems to work fine on my car up to around 1.6bar - the Link is certainly tracking into row 9, which is 1.4-1.7bar

If the ECU is pulling back boost sharply then maybe it is detecting knock - as the ECU is designed to pull back the boost in such cases.

Trout

C

I'm stoopid then

I thought if the ecu detects knock, it retards the ingntion only...

I presume it pulls back everything in that zone then i.e. boost, fuel & ignition.

My understanding was that it's how much advance (or ignition) you can run with the minimum knock is the optimum as more advance = more likelyhood of det?

Can someone set me straight or just take me to the paddock and shoot me?

I was never cut out for this technical molarchy! lol

Chris

AlanG

Can't see it pulling back fuel!!

Don't know much how the std ECU works, but i would imagine it would try to pull back ignition but if that fails then it goes stuff this and pulls the boost down to safeguard things.

The P1 also has an air inlet temp sensor, dunno what the ECU takes from that, regards control.

A

Mike G

Thanks to all for contibuting to this post especially AlanG and JB.

Alan do I read right and do you have or have had a P1 - you seem to know your stuff (Nice meeting you last week by the way).

JB - see you tomorrow.

Mike G

john banks

Alan has a very tasty MY99 with some very nice mods coming up

Alan, the inlet air temperature compensation map on the STi and P1 is full of... nothing. It is a boost compensation map, but unused as far as we can tell.

Pavlo

just a thought while I see this thread...

Voltage losses from maf caused by dodgy amplifier electronics in the ecu that only a hardware change would fix....

P

AlanG

Hi Mike

Have never had a P1, but owned my scoob for over 3 years now and learned about them along the way.

As John hinted , it has had the odd one or two changes to its spec in its' time to make a good car better.

Alan

john banks

Thanks Paul - that will be a good plan on the other car with the low MAF readings. I'll let you know.

WREXY

Won't be long before John does a Tek 3 on my car as well.

Cheers,

Wrexy.

P1 Enthusiast

John can i just ask how much this sort of 'tweak' costs? I have my P1 running std for now, was considering this sort of tweak but not sure how much i want to spend etc.

If its affordable i would be very interested in achieving similar results