ScoobyDoo555

After just watching CH5 (yes, I'm bored!!) ,just seen the new Mitsubishi WRC (based on the Carisma - never knew that!) is not a Lancer EVO......

I thought for a WRC, the manufacturer had to produce a certain amount of reaod-fairing cars.... i.e 22B, 206 Gran Tourismo, etc.....

Mind you, it the Mitsi DID look rather nice......

Dan

johnfelstead

errrm, the charisma is the lancer, it's the UK name for that model. The WRC car is based on the Lancer Evo VI.

The rules changed from GroupA to WRC a few years ago although mitsubishi have stayed with the GroupA rules until just now.

You used to have to produce 2500 models of the car the GroupA was based on. Now under WRC rules you just need to use a production shell, an engine from the manufacturers range that can then be turbocharged, hence focus WRC uses the N/A Zetec as its base and then you have free transmisions and rear suspension mods. So again like the focus you can take the FWD N/A car and make it into a 4x4 turbo WRC car.

This was done to allow the costs to be reduced and enable the likes of skoda, hyundai, peugeot and seat into the big time without huge investment in a homologation special.

The 22B was not a homologation special under groupA rules. It was a car unto itself and not built to meet any FIA requirements.

evo kid

wrc rules mean that they donet have to buid 200 road going versions as the cars donet have a lot in comen with the road cars (exept the same looks)the lancer has been called the carisma in different countrys for a while now .
tommy mack drives(or did )a group a lancer
and Freddy loinx did drive a group a carisma
and they were exactly the same cars just different badges.

EvilBevel

John

>>errrm, the charisma is the lancer, it's the UK name for that model.

It's also the name that has always been used in Germany, and since last year in Belgium & Holland as well.

But just to be clear... charisma=lancer, the base model that was driven through Halfords

johnfelstead

i think my grip is fine thankyou very much indeedy.

I didnt see the chanel 5 program (who the hell does?) but right now the current car is the lancer/charisma so i answered based on that.

The cedia (known as the lancer evolution WRC) is actually going to be released in 2 stages. firstly as the step 1 version which will use EVO VI running gear in the Cedia bodyshell, this ran for the first time in testing 2 weeks ago. The real new version lancer evolution WRC (step 2) will be out in spring 2002 and will use a repositioned engine and hydraulicly (rather than electro-magnetic) controlled transmision system.

you are living in the past also, it hasnt been 5000 cars for homologation for years. article 255.2 of the FIA apendix J regulations states : At least 2,500 identical examples of these cars must have been manufactured in 12 consecutive months.

The turbo restrictor on GroupA/WRC cars is 34mm. 32mm is what is fitted to GroupN engines. You can of course use a 37mm restrictor if you run a diesel turbo configuration or even 2 restrictors of 24mm when running twin turbo configurations.

I hope you are more acurate with your facts in your day job.



[This message has been edited by johnfelstead (edited 13 August 2001).]

JGRIFF

Get a grip fellas, the Evo 7, which is the car scoobyDoo555 was refering to, is based on the Japan only Cedria saloon. This is longer, wider, and heavier than the outgoing Lancer. More importantly its basic torsional rigidity is much greater. there is no requirement to run an homologated car (when this was the case the figure was 5000 identical vehicles for base homologation. Suspension type is free, but you must use the original suspension pick up points +/- 24mm. engines must be based on a current range engine, but to limit power they run through a mandatory 32mm restrictor, which severely limits top end power (ie no more than 300bhp). This in turn has resulted in the teams concentrating there engine development on the production of torque hence why the cars are so bloody quick!!, and leave 4 black lines on the exit of uphill hairpins on tarmac. getting back to Ralliart, they got special exemption from the FIA to homologate a new back suspension (MacPherson strut based)for the outgoing Evo 6 - a Group A car, not WRC car, on the understanding that they would introduce the new Evo 7 - to WRc car regs in this competition year

GaryC

Go JF....Go JF......Go JF......

Jza

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by johnfelstead:
<B>

you are living in the past also, it hasnt been 5000 cars for homologation for years. article 255.2 of the FIA apendix J regulations states : At least 2,500 identical examples of these cars must have been manufactured in 12 consecutive months.

[This message has been edited by johnfelstead (edited 13 August 2001).][/quote]

Damn,

John shows his **** to more than just other drivers then.........

LOL @ JGRIFF

Jza

ScoobyDoo555

Ask a sensible question - get a caustic answer!!! Just kidin' JF....

In all honesty, didn't know that the Lancer was a Charisma......

U lurn sumfink nu every day!!

Dan (watches ch5 for the motorsport - nothing on any other terrestrial channel. Haven't got Sky Sports )

JGRIFF

JF don't get me started group A has minimum homologation numbers, WRC ala Evo 7 doesn't,just a certain number of WRC parts kits. You are absolutely right Phase 2 means that the engine is canted back a few degrees around the centre line of the crank, moving weight back to the middle of the car and creating more space between intercooler and turbo for a more efficient pipe run. this inclination of the engine is allowed under WRC rules but not Group A. Again as you say phase 2 will probably see the introduction of a hydraulically operated transmission - falling into line with all the other WRC cars, rather than the unique electrically operated system of the current Evo 6. This phase 2 will be some time away as you are only allowed one WRC homologation every 12 months, Evo 7 being slated to run in San Remo in October. the other interesting thing is that once a manufacturer makes a new homologation they are not allowed to run older homologation cars on WRC rounds. Shall we call it an honorable draw and retire to the bar gracefully, or am I going to have to get my copy of the yellow book out as well (MY tongue is very firmly in my cheek!!)
regards
JGRIFF

[This message has been edited by JGRIFF (edited 15 August 2001).]

[This message has been edited by JGRIFF (edited 15 August 2001).]

johnfelstead

LOL

johnfelstead

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>JF don't get me started group A has minimum homologation numbers, WRC ala Evo 7 doesn't,just a certain number of WRC parts kits.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Errrrrrrm, thats exactly what i said in my first post. "You used to have to produce 2500 models of the car the GroupA was based on. Now under WRC rules you just need to use a production shell, an engine from the manufacturers range that can then be turbocharged........."

I dont want to get you started on homologation numbers because you'd get them wrong again! LOL

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>this inclination of the engine is allowed under WRC rules but not Group A.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One of the reasons Mitsubishi stayed with the groupA rules is because it actually gave them more freedom in the design of the car and allowed more changes/updates per year. If they wanted to produce a canted engined EVO IV they could have quite easily under GroupA rules. What WRC rules allow is movement of location from the production car design as long as the engine bay bulkhead isnt encroached upon.

Mitsubishi were the only car manufacturer that could easily sell 2500 (THATS 2,500 !!!!!!) homologation specials so could justify the expense of staying groupA whilst everyone else, Subaru and Ford included jumped ship to WRC because they couldnt. The end for them came when the cedia design became mainstreem as that doesnt fit so well with the groupA philosphy as a base model and so they have gone the WRC route.

I never settle for a draw when i am kicking ***. LOL

Kidding aside, it's obvious you are into the sport i love which is cool, but i'll kick your *** seriously well if you fancy getting into a pissing contest on the rules. I know's me stuff. LOL

JGRIFF

JF I am old enough to remember protesting results with £5 in one hand and the blue book in the other. This is obviously going to take several hours and several drinks, before both of us realise that we are saying the same things to each other. but as you rightly point out my day job consists of knowing the small print and shear bloody mindedness (talents you'll know yourself that are very useful when talking to scrutineers and stewards). I shall look forward to meeting you face to face sometime in the future, i shall now retire and leave you to kick yourself - only kidding

dustbin hoffman

Damn!

Theres far too much sexual tension in this thread.

EvilBevel

Yes, errrm, OK

But do they use a dumpvalve ? LOL

Theo

(this should get it going again )

rsquire

Theo

You <I>Little</I> stirrer you

johnfelstead

LOL

It's all in good humour/fun. A bit of light relief for me after the week from hell at home.

Nice to be able to get my teath into a debate right now. LOL

5door98

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv oh sory guys.......fell asleep with my nose on the keyboard.