imatrukahs

How much they beat another car?...Like i raced a TVR Chrimera..in my Cossie..i stuck to his bumper....no way i could get past...and no way he could pull away..so did he beat me cause i couldnt get past?

All these posts about my cars quicker etc etc...should only arise IF you literally overtake and pull away from them...(assuming what you are racing aint a Metro etc..)

None of you Scoobs are ever gonna do that to a Cossie with similar BHP....and nether are we.So stop bickering....

Just got to follow my own advice and i will be sorted..

Dunc20

What's ur point??!

imatrukahs

We should all love each other...LOL

I dont know what my point is...i mean what is the point of life?

Dunc20

Well......

No i agree with you,....i think!- i'm not in2 all the "my scoobys quicker than ur cossie crap"- however if i do meet a cossie at some lights or on the road i'll let him know i'm there (just in the name of fun), coz i have respect for all quick cars and like to see them driven FAST, and safely of course!

ANYONE WANT A RACE??!- (thats a joke b4 any do gooders start renting!!).

Dunc.

Dunc20

That's meant to say 'ranting not renting!'

davyboy

Mostly it appears the racers race in a straight line,e.g motorway/dual carriage way....and whoever pulls away wins.

If they loose the the following comes in to play.....then they reply but what about the twisties (copyright scoobynet 2002). Chances are they would get blown away then as well

chrisp

There are no cossies with a similar bhp as mine as they are all 500bhp arent they

LG John

For me its all down to who is putting down the most distance on the road the quickest. For example if I start 20m behind someone but close into 10m then I'd say my car is quicker and vica versa. If I had the power to start behind someone, get past them and then pull a lead I'd say I gave them a good thumping because you require a fair bit of extra power to do that.

IMO pulling a 1-2 car length lead over a run to 100mph is a narrow victory, if you pull 3-4 its comfortable and over 6 and your humping the car your playing with.

I don't really car too much about it, I just like having fun in my car. If that means getting thrashed by a maxed up Nova then so be it, it'll be fun to see such a crap (IMO) car accelerating so fast and whipping my scooby

LG John

Of course the real problem comes if you start on a dualled road at 0mph and race up to 130 and beyond (this is hypothetical!!). You see a scooby could proabably give a fair few cars a pasting up to 70-80mph but then start to be reeled in and maybe passed after the 120mph barrier has been exceeded. So who wins that??? An example of this might be a Fiat Coupe Turbo. I've got about 270bhp and could probably hammer one of these to 90mph but after that my 4wd and brick shape would count against me and I'd hedge my bet it would catch me back up and pass at silly speeds For me, I'd prefer to own the scooby for the faster, legal, acceleration but I'd bet the Fiat, or similar, driver would claim victory. Tough call

chrisp

Car performance wise a lot depends on power bands, gearing, backing off then flooring it. If you really want to know take it to a track. For me if some one wants to have a spirited drive with me then fine. On the other side if I am following then I dont tailgate as some people do just prove they are being held up.

Knowing your car, the road type, reading potential hazards, the conditions (traffic and weather), and especially your own limitations and using them all in combination is the mark of a good driver.

Driving all over the road and totally out of control and do or die overtaking is the sign inexperience and/or stupidity. Lads go past my house at 70mph+ and I live on an estate 30mph. Could they live with wiping out a kid on bike or crossing road, I know I couldnt. "Oh I can stop becuase I am an ace driver me", rubbish most cant see past the end of the bonnet or too busy racing or showing off to their mates to read the road or hazards .

Yes I drive quick, but I would like to think safe. Racing on the roads is a mugs game and sooner or later it will end in tears.

People who know me know I am not a do-gooder, or PC type person just a realist, I love cars esp. fast cars but there is a time and a place and an attitude.

cheers

ChrisP



[Edited by chrisp - 10/11/2002 12:59:24 PM]

LG John

Couldn't agree more I'll pick and choose carefully when I'll play with other cars and this doesn't include 30mph roads past schools, etc

Foot_Tapper

Im going to get shot down from my rear gunner position;
but here goes anyway.

To compare performances for cars; and it seems in a lot of cases;
cossie v scoob.
Take a look at the motorsport industry.
Do the various track competitions use scoobs a lot ??? not as far as ive seen. But why ?? (im sure a lot of you know this)

Do rally comps use them ?? yes. and im sure most know the
answer to this as well.

Its horses for courses (excuse pun), what is most suitable for
which type of event.
So we shouldnt be suprised that a scoob would get beaten
a LOT on the standard roads should we.
Or have i missed something ??

uh oh, time for fire extinguisher

LG John

I agree the scooby isn't designed for the track. The scooby/EVO is great on sh1tty, tight, broken twisty b roads, elises, caterhams, etc make great track cars, Fiat coupe turbo, M3s, Supras are great for motorway driving or fast a roads, pulsar GTI-R's, skylines, etc for 1/4 mile, hot-hatches for 1/4 mile (if tuned) and for towns and a roads.

Very few cars can do all of these really well, it's just not possible to design them that way.

johnfelstead

That's a bit of a silly statement to make. There are so many diferent versions of scoobs out there. I would quite happily put a TypeR/RA up against a similar powered cossie with similar suspension and brake mods because the gearing is much lower, so it will accelerate a lot quicker. A UK car of similar power would easily match it too, the RA would make it look silly.

There is far more to how quick a car is than power. You have transmition losses to take into account, a TypeR/RA has less than a UK car or a 4x4 cossie but more than a 2wd cossie. You have centre of gravity and therefore change of direction to take into account, a subaru has a better CofG than any cossie due to the flat4 alloy engine compared to an upright 4 cast iron blocked engine with a high mounted turbo.

I could go on a bore you to death about the advantages a scoob has over a cossie, it has weeknesses too such as the brakes on a pre 99 UK car are pants compared to a cossie, but a TypeR/RA has better brakes than a cossie 4x4. Even the cossie 4x4 has crap front brakes compared to a 2wd cossie. The list goes on and on.

So to say with equal power they would be the same is a nonsense. The only real advantage a cossie has in the big picture is the fact they are cheap to tune and can take more power with less espense/hassle. But thats down to the fact the engine is designed to give a great alround package out of the box, subaru achieved their objective of a better handling, faster car you can buy in the showroom.

All this taken into account, the real issue with similar spec cars is always down to the driver. Most people cant exploit the potential of the package so a good driver will be quicker in either car compared to an average driver. Also Subaru's are much easier to drive at the upper limits than a cossie, so in the real world mr average will be safer and quicker in the scoob.

Comparisons as to who beat who on the road are meaningless, put them on a closed circuit and then you can make comparisons. I would get my *** kicked (in terms of i beat X on the road) by someone driving their car to the upper limits on the road, because i dont push hard on the road. Stick us on a race track and then the tables will probably be turned because then i would be comfy with taking it to the limits.

As for rally cars, i think you will find more cossies than scoobs competing because they are cheaper to run in a high spec. That's why my team runs a groupA Escort Cossie in the forests, we can afford it. The only cars that tend to match us on pace cost an enormous amount more to build and run. I would love us to run a proper GroupA scoob in the forests, we just cant afford it though.

imatrukahs

John..i meant similar powered cars...say 300bhp...neither one will annilate the other in a straight line....round twisties..different story..as you say..driver ability comes into play here....so not a silly statement as i was really talking about a road senario...which is where most people "compare" cars.

chrisp

At a recent dyno day my RA was showing 63bhp transmission losses as apposed to, two P1s (with UK gear sets) who were looking at 90-100bhp transmission losses. This looks mostly down to gearing, just looking at the plot of a Shauns 325 bhp on the scoobynet dyno Powerstation page his escort cossie went from 325bhp @ fly to 207bhp at the wheels thats 118bhp lost through the transmission. So equal power at the fly may not always mean equal power at the wheels where it matters


[Edited by chrisp - 10/12/2002 4:24:24 PM]

imatrukahs

You lot have to be so picky dont you?.....Look equal bleedin power at wheels then...

chrisp

LOL but then you have to take into account power to weight ratios and RA are the lightest impreas you can buy about 1210kgs .

So if the cars have the same power at the wheels and same power to weight ratio then Micheal Schumacher will still win

imatrukahs

I give up.......*slowly gets off chair goes upstairs and opens window and climbs out...............arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrr...THUD*

johnfelstead

LOL

I think chris has made my point about the RA, even on the road.

johnfelstead

apart from the fact, with the same power at the wheels and the same weight, the scoob RA will still win due to lower gearing, so it will get there faster.

co55ie

But we all know that god invented scoobies so that cossie owners had something to spank and as god is a decent fella it was a two way thing as It gave the poor scoob owners something to aspire too

Buzzer

I just want to know if you're name is pronounced:

imatrukahs :- (I'm a truck ****)

Apart from sounding like an **** it is possible that you may look like a trucks ****.

PS No cossie sites you can pester instead of us, or did they get pi55ed of with you aswell.

RichardPON

LOL

Yeah, they did.

Ima got a lifetime ban

polarbearit

The thing about the standard RA gearing is the gearing is too short for M-Way speeds. My WRX was low geared, the skyline higher geared (and with another 100bhp) and the skyline goes faster than the WRX at all speeds, but hugely so above 100. The short gearing means it is all over too soon in an RA. So cossie @ 90mph vs type RA @ 90mph and I bet the cossie wins...

co55ie

Just ditch the ppp pack and get yourselves a Peco big bore 2 or for the more footless and fancy free owner a peco powermaster would be a hard act to follow

polarbearit

Yep, 'universal fit' Peco exhaust - tasty

While we're at, don't bother with an induction kit just remove your airbox!

johnfelstead

I would like you to repeat that after sitting in my RA at 155MPH over a blind crest at the ring!

There is a lot of nonsense talked about RA gearing, it isnt that low! 19MPH/1000rpm = 155MPH top speed on an STi5 TypeRA, my own currently has a 22MPH/1000rpm 5th gear because of it being a V-Ltd. It does 115MPH in 4th with the standard 1st-4th STi5 RA gearing they all share.

Incedentaly next week i am taking the V-Ltd 5th out and putting a normal RA 5th in, this is despite the fact i do 1200 mile round trips to the ring on a weekend. The very early RA's had a very low gearing, but most of them are no where near as low or as impractical as the myth that seems to exist on this BBS.

polarbearit

John, there maybe a lot of nonesense, but I can only comment on the difference between my RA geared WRX with breathing mods (circa 290bhp) and my skyline with breathing mods, the skyline is geared for 200mph in 5th (see ronnies car std box hit limiter @ 209mph - he has a slightly higher rev limit than my car extra 300revs). The skyline accelarates between 100-130 like the scooby did between 70-100mph.

If you use all 8k with standard RA gearing you are doing 152mph, (can't comment on your gearing JF) but advice (certainly given to me) was not to go above about 7k much... Which only gives 133mph. As said you have different gearing, but I've always found Scooby's slow past a ton, even with RA gearing! Maybe your gearing is a better balance? I know I don't have a like for like comparison, so I'll shut up now.

PS What is the best lap time a scooby has done round the 'ring?

johnfelstead

First of all, lets talk real world here. Most people cruise on the motorway at around 85MPH, that's only 4500rpm in a normal RA, it's hardly screwing the nuts off an engine that is built to do 8200rpm. It's pointless comparing a Skyline to an RA, they are totally diferent types of cars. In the real world with standard spec engines the RA will be much quicker, of course a skyline will be quicker the faster you go because they have similar drag figures, so above 120MPH the power/drag matters more than power/weight and geering becomes less critical.

The thing that kills Impreza engines isnt reving them above 7K, it's holding them flat out at full throttle for long periods of time to get a top speed run. The RA is actually less likely to be a problem because you dont have to hold it on full power at the top end for very long at all, where as a UK car you could be trying to screw that last few MPH out of it for minutes. When driving at the ring i usually shift at 7500rpm but in a few corners i will take it to 8000rpm rather than upshift to 5th. Fastest point on the circuit see's me doing 155MPH.

Fastest lap on a public day by an Impreza that is recorded is Phil Gardner (Ringa) a guy who has years of instructing people on the ring. He set this in his STi TypeR running approx 330BHP and FormulaR tyres. His time is 8:10 BTG, so 15 seconds behind him with a fraction of the experience, normal road tyres and a standard spec engine on higher 5th gearing isnt too sloppy really.