P1 surpassed yet???
25 October 2002, 04:41 PM
#1
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Has anyone gone the whole hog yet with the current STi?
By that i mean the PPP with Prodrive brakes,suspension and 18inch wheel options all on their car?
If so have you driven/owned a P1 with brakes,18's etc and has the new car bettered the benchmark car yet?
By that i mean the PPP with Prodrive brakes,suspension and 18inch wheel options all on their car?
If so have you driven/owned a P1 with brakes,18's etc and has the new car bettered the benchmark car yet?
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25 October 2002, 06:14 PM
#8
25 October 2002, 08:29 PM
#9
Have to say i've tried the new STI Brembos at Castle Coomb and to be honest i thought they were cack. Compared to the Alcons, it's like night and day... Bit like the P1 I suppose
I know the STI's don't come with SS hoses but would have expected better.
We had a little handling course to negotiate and a wet patch to show off the ABS - had to push the pedal to the floor almost to trigger the ABS at around 30mph!!
Steve.
I know the STI's don't come with SS hoses but would have expected better.We had a little handling course to negotiate and a wet patch to show off the ABS - had to push the pedal to the floor almost to trigger the ABS at around 30mph!!
Steve.
25 October 2002, 10:28 PM
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And the paint fell off if I sneezed.
And I paid nearly £34K for it.
And they made 500 too many.
And I lost £10K in a year.
And it had no stereo.
And the dealers all had bay windows.
And I`m a **** for buying one when Subaru a little later launched a car that was much better for a lot less money.
And I paid nearly £34K for it.
And they made 500 too many.
And I lost £10K in a year.
And it had no stereo.
And the dealers all had bay windows.
And I`m a **** for buying one when Subaru a little later launched a car that was much better for a lot less money.
25 October 2002, 10:30 PM
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And it understeered like a **** with its puney 205 tyres.
And the nice front spoiler that was always falling off was a lovely white underneath.
God where do I stop.
And **** me I just bought another Subaru
And the nice front spoiler that was always falling off was a lovely white underneath.
God where do I stop.
And **** me I just bought another Subaru
25 October 2002, 10:53 PM
#16
Arroon,
You sound like a right tw*t, don't mind me saying.
You're comments are about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike!!
Go bother the EVO bbs if it bothers you that much.
Seriously, If you think buying an STI is going to give an improvement over a P1 then stay OFF the bottle. Unless motorway cruising is your thing...seconds thoughts, by the sound of it(and what i've heard!)..it is..
Steve.
[Edited by SteveB - 10/25/2002 10:54:33 PM]
You sound like a right tw*t, don't mind me saying.
You're comments are about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike!!
Go bother the EVO bbs if it bothers you that much.
Seriously, If you think buying an STI is going to give an improvement over a P1 then stay OFF the bottle. Unless motorway cruising is your thing...seconds thoughts, by the sound of it(and what i've heard!)..it is..
Steve.
[Edited by SteveB - 10/25/2002 10:54:33 PM]
26 October 2002, 09:28 AM
#17
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Seems that all the above must just be utter bo11ox then eh Steve.
Yes it is a fantastic car with no faults it was the right price when launched with all extras fitted as standard.
I think your the **** here......mind you you probably own one.
Mind you perhaps you were the lucky bastad that bought my car after I threw away all that money cos no-one other than my dealer would even buy it.As I expect the usual reply from someone who doesnt have a clue!
Steve I also class myself as someone who IS capable of driving a car to its limit and write what I beleive to be absolute truth.
Not journlistic crap.
I also am not of the opinion that just because I bought a Subaru and am the member of this BBS ( a long standing one at that) that the cars they build are the fastest best built value for money cars on this planet.
[Edited by ARRON BIRD - 10/26/2002 9:40:12 AM]
Yes it is a fantastic car with no faults it was the right price when launched with all extras fitted as standard.
I think your the **** here......mind you you probably own one.
Mind you perhaps you were the lucky bastad that bought my car after I threw away all that money cos no-one other than my dealer would even buy it.As I expect the usual reply from someone who doesnt have a clue!
Steve I also class myself as someone who IS capable of driving a car to its limit and write what I beleive to be absolute truth.
Not journlistic crap.
I also am not of the opinion that just because I bought a Subaru and am the member of this BBS ( a long standing one at that) that the cars they build are the fastest best built value for money cars on this planet.
[Edited by ARRON BIRD - 10/26/2002 9:40:12 AM]
26 October 2002, 10:07 AM
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i had a p1 with 18's, alcons and a full ss system, currently got a sti prodrive with just a ss backbox, ppp on order, find it a better handling car, better brakes on the road, havnt tracked the sti, just lacking in go in 1st or 2nd compared to the p1, feels stronger in 3rd though, just a grown up 4 door p1 to me
mark
mark
26 October 2002, 10:16 AM
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Aaron,
I thought you'd got over it m8?
Come on, let it go man!!! 
Have you driven both? Back to back? I have and have to disagree.
You have GOT to be kidding? They are good but not in the league of either the AP4 pots or the AP6 pots 
I would hazzard a guess that the Movit/Brembos and the KAD brakes are also better, but I don't know because I've not driven them.
I drove my MY00 with AP4 pots back to back with the new STi in standard trim and did some brake tests. On the strength of those tests I sold the AP4 pots (and seperately, the car) as I thought the Brembos were close enough to not bother putting the AP's on it. Obviously, the AP's survived perfectly on track and I don't think the solid discs of the Brembos (and too a degree, the Alcons) would work properly (for very long) on track.
Before I take my STi on track, I plan to replace the discs with AP's and the pads with something suitable. BTW, I have driven the Alcons extensively both on the road and track so IMHO are good, but not up to track use and are of a similar performance to the Brembos.
All just IMHO obviously
Matt
I thought you'd got over it m8?
Come on, let it go man!!!
Sorry guys but the Alcon's destroy the Brembo's every bloody time
no contest, they are the best brakes money can buy for your Scoob.
I would hazzard a guess that the Movit/Brembos and the KAD brakes are also better, but I don't know because I've not driven them.I drove my MY00 with AP4 pots back to back with the new STi in standard trim and did some brake tests. On the strength of those tests I sold the AP4 pots (and seperately, the car) as I thought the Brembos were close enough to not bother putting the AP's on it. Obviously, the AP's survived perfectly on track and I don't think the solid discs of the Brembos (and too a degree, the Alcons) would work properly (for very long) on track.
Before I take my STi on track, I plan to replace the discs with AP's and the pads with something suitable. BTW, I have driven the Alcons extensively both on the road and track so IMHO are good, but not up to track use and are of a similar performance to the Brembos.
All just IMHO obviously
Matt
26 October 2002, 10:19 AM
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Matt I am well over it mate its just comments like that really pi55 me off.
I wouldnt be buying another Subaru if I wasnt over it.
The STI is better than the P1 in most areas and is less money!!
Particularly as mine is nearly new and some poor bastad ahs already lost a few grand.
I wouldnt be buying another Subaru if I wasnt over it.
The STI is better than the P1 in most areas and is less money!!
Particularly as mine is nearly new and some poor bastad ahs already lost a few grand.
26 October 2002, 10:26 AM
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P.S. The Alcons come with the braided hoses as part of the kit and the OE Brembos on the STi come with rubber hoses. Comparing the Alcons to the Brembos when the Brembos have braided hoses makes quite a difference.
To answer the original point, firstly I didn't think that the P1 was the reference Scoob anyway, that IMHO would have been one of the STi's (STi V RA V-Ltd was my favorite) but also, the STi IMHO has surpassed the P1.
Remember that in standard trim, the P1 had bucket loads of understeer due to the built in Bump Steer, had crap brakes and the old shape chassis which was a LOT less stiff. It also had the open front diff. Obviously, I'm not comparing bodywork/cosmetic things (but then, there were a few problems with those too) but just the driving capability. The only thing I think the P1 had over the new STi was that it was lighter and had a little more power. IMHO, those do not make up for the improvements in the new STi.
After the amount of fuss Aaron has made on this board in the last year about his "P1 Experience", if he didn't think the STi was a significant improvement (he's coming from an M3 E46 remember), then I doubt he would be buying one.....
Ta,
Matt
P.P.S. Mike, sorry I have less than nice things to say about some of your products, no malice intended, just my opinion
To answer the original point, firstly I didn't think that the P1 was the reference Scoob anyway, that IMHO would have been one of the STi's (STi V RA V-Ltd was my favorite) but also, the STi IMHO has surpassed the P1.
Remember that in standard trim, the P1 had bucket loads of understeer due to the built in Bump Steer, had crap brakes and the old shape chassis which was a LOT less stiff. It also had the open front diff. Obviously, I'm not comparing bodywork/cosmetic things (but then, there were a few problems with those too) but just the driving capability. The only thing I think the P1 had over the new STi was that it was lighter and had a little more power. IMHO, those do not make up for the improvements in the new STi.
After the amount of fuss Aaron has made on this board in the last year about his "P1 Experience", if he didn't think the STi was a significant improvement (he's coming from an M3 E46 remember), then I doubt he would be buying one.....
Ta,
Matt
P.P.S. Mike, sorry I have less than nice things to say about some of your products, no malice intended, just my opinion
26 October 2002, 11:13 AM
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Well the way i see it is that standard brakes for standard brakes the Brembo's on the STi7 are considerably better than those fitted to the older STi/UK cars.
Now to me spending 1700 quid on a completely different set of brakes on the STi7 Type UK is a waste of cash as you already have the best part you need (the calipers) so all your going to really need are new (and better) discs and pads (and braided hoses and some DOT5.1)
This works out about 1k cheaper than the Alcon option (and im a consumer so i want good braking on an already good setup but i dont want to throw money away when i can save 1k)
A worthy option on a P1? possably, but when AP 6 pots are in the same price bracket......
Tony
Now to me spending 1700 quid on a completely different set of brakes on the STi7 Type UK is a waste of cash as you already have the best part you need (the calipers) so all your going to really need are new (and better) discs and pads (and braided hoses and some DOT5.1
)This works out about 1k cheaper than the Alcon option (and im a consumer so i want good braking on an already good setup but i dont want to throw money away when i can save 1k
)A worthy option on a P1? possably, but when AP 6 pots are in the same price bracket......
Tony
26 October 2002, 11:29 AM
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Tested Alcons from 100 -> 0 against Brembo's, Brembo's with braided hoses, Porsche calipers and a Porsche itself, Alcons won every time, so i think you are mistaken in your comments Matt, those other brakes might feel better, but in reality they are not!
26 October 2002, 12:16 PM
#26
Arron,
Your quotes -
And the paint fell off if I sneezed - Honest truth..eh??
And the dealers all had bay windows. eh ??
And it had no stereo. eh ?? you knew that didn't you.. or did you not look.
And I`m a ****...Yeh, we agree..
And it understeered like a **** with its puney 205 tyres...eh ?
Hmmm - some really honest comments there then..
Steve.
Your quotes -
And the paint fell off if I sneezed - Honest truth..eh??
And the dealers all had bay windows. eh ??
And it had no stereo. eh ?? you knew that didn't you.. or did you not look.
And I`m a ****...Yeh, we agree..
And it understeered like a **** with its puney 205 tyres...eh ?
Hmmm - some really honest comments there then..
Steve.
26 October 2002, 12:19 PM
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To help Arron here there were some serious issues with the P1 (which were i hasten to add sorted very quickly )
The brakes and pads seem to cause most of them (it ate the paint off the car and the alloy wheels) plus some minor bits like paint flaking off the air intakes for the brakes.
Tony
)The brakes and pads seem to cause most of them (it ate the paint off the car and the alloy wheels)
plus some minor bits like paint flaking off the air intakes for the brakes.Tony
26 October 2002, 12:46 PM
#30
Arron,
I remember your problems with the brakes (been on here along time too)- I too had/have a set of Alcons with the DS3000 pads. Luckily mine was a spare car and generally got cleaned at the end of a weekend. Still got the front wheels/disc/pads changed though.
Hope you're pleased with the STI ?
I just hate all these - Mines better than yours threads.
I'm pleased with my P1 so don't see any reason to change..That's my opinion of course
Cheers
Steve.
I remember your problems with the brakes (been on here along time too)- I too had/have a set of Alcons with the DS3000 pads. Luckily mine was a spare car and generally got cleaned at the end of a weekend. Still got the front wheels/disc/pads changed though.
Hope you're pleased with the STI ?
I just hate all these - Mines better than yours threads.
I'm pleased with my P1 so don't see any reason to change..That's my opinion of course
Cheers
Steve.