insurance problem - fraudulent claim!!!
09 October 2001, 01:44 PM
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Get yourself down to a solicitor straight away mate, dont let her shaft you.
Also, be careful what you post in a public forum, it could count against you if not careful.
People like this woman make me sick.
P
Also, be careful what you post in a public forum, it could count against you if not careful.
People like this woman make me sick.
P
09 October 2001, 01:46 PM
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Hmmm, well, you have the cheque made out to her, she needs to provide receipts for the damage to her car, there were no witnesses, see if her rear brake lights are still defective and if so report that to the police and your insurance co, inform your insurance co!! even if you paid out of your pocket you still have to tell them that you had an accident, see if she has done the same, also see if she had a sick note about having time off work for injuries, find out who her doctors are/were and see if shes been there with the injuries! (let your solicitor deal with this)
Report the next accident you have to your insurance co, saves the hassle.
Tony
Report the next accident you have to your insurance co, saves the hassle.
Tony
09 October 2001, 01:48 PM
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Oh if your insurance co find out shes trying to pull a fast one (they will send a damage assessor round hopefully to check the car out) they will take out an impending prosecution againts her for fraud, i think it carries 5 yrs in prison, probably the best place for her 
Tony
Tony
09 October 2001, 01:56 PM
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contacted my solicitor, he told me to use the insurance company as if i go through him
a. it costs me money - well duh!
b. if she gets a claim against me, i pay, not ins. co.
so i'll tell them tommorrow. thats gonna be fun explaining all of that, have a 3 page letter typed out so i'll try and get that to them. also, fun for me reporting the accident nearly 2 months later. i no this whole thing is gonna coz me hell.
a. it costs me money - well duh!
b. if she gets a claim against me, i pay, not ins. co.
so i'll tell them tommorrow. thats gonna be fun explaining all of that, have a 3 page letter typed out so i'll try and get that to them. also, fun for me reporting the accident nearly 2 months later. i no this whole thing is gonna coz me hell.
09 October 2001, 02:03 PM
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if you really hardly hardly touched her I'd be tempted to try something like this:
As long as you didn't accompany the cheque with a letter discussing whats happened then deny all knowledge of any accident.
regarding the 50 quid cheque, say it was payment for something you bought from her. My prefernce would be 'personal services' that she offered and provided!!!
Any witnesses? if so that could be a fly in the ointment of this plan. If not maybe just deny all knowledge of it.
Bloody ambulance chaser legal firms spark this kind of ****
sorry to hear of your predicament anyway
Upon reflection, re-reading the letter you received it sounds like a bit of a blag actually! Does the solicitors exist?
The wording is quite poor and the fact that they are asking you to make an OFFER of compensation and have not picked a figure seems very strange to me, though I am no expert.
Also the English used like "to fix you with the legal costs incurred." seems almost childlike!
I have no experience of these processes personally. Can anyone else confirm that the letter sounds wierd, or is it normal for the solicitor to ask you to make up a figure you want to pay?
This is only a possible course of action if you don't want to go through insurance. I would avoid admitting any liability to anyone!
All the above can lead to aggravation of various sizes though, so proceed with caution. Unless your insurance includes legal protection it sounds like you might have to use a solicitor to dispute her sh!tty claim.
I guess its best if you talk to your insurers and hope they are understanding. at least then its out in the open.
p.s. Also I'd be well tempted to get an old banger and make sure one day I was in front of her then just slam the brakes on. Jump out and run off!
must be the child in me! :-)
Good luck
[This message has been edited by juan (edited 09 October 2001).]
As long as you didn't accompany the cheque with a letter discussing whats happened then deny all knowledge of any accident.
regarding the 50 quid cheque, say it was payment for something you bought from her. My prefernce would be 'personal services' that she offered and provided!!!
Any witnesses? if so that could be a fly in the ointment of this plan. If not maybe just deny all knowledge of it.
Bloody ambulance chaser legal firms spark this kind of ****
sorry to hear of your predicament anyway
Upon reflection, re-reading the letter you received it sounds like a bit of a blag actually! Does the solicitors exist?
The wording is quite poor and the fact that they are asking you to make an OFFER of compensation and have not picked a figure seems very strange to me, though I am no expert.
Also the English used like "to fix you with the legal costs incurred." seems almost childlike!
I have no experience of these processes personally. Can anyone else confirm that the letter sounds wierd, or is it normal for the solicitor to ask you to make up a figure you want to pay?
This is only a possible course of action if you don't want to go through insurance. I would avoid admitting any liability to anyone!
All the above can lead to aggravation of various sizes though, so proceed with caution. Unless your insurance includes legal protection it sounds like you might have to use a solicitor to dispute her sh!tty claim.
I guess its best if you talk to your insurers and hope they are understanding. at least then its out in the open.
p.s. Also I'd be well tempted to get an old banger and make sure one day I was in front of her then just slam the brakes on. Jump out and run off!
must be the child in me! :-)
Good luck
[This message has been edited by juan (edited 09 October 2001).]
09 October 2001, 02:14 PM
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i thought about just denying it, but i don't want to end up lying. her car has NO damage, i've seen carpark shunts that are much harder, also with no damage.
teach me for not leaving enough space in front of me when i stop
teach me for not leaving enough space in front of me when i stop
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09 October 2001, 02:16 PM
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This type of thing really p155e5 me off!
A couple of years ago I was driving my Mum's Ford, I came up behind a woman in an old Celica with about 6 people in it! She went to pull of the round about then slammed her foot on the brakes, I went in the back of her at about 10 mph. No damage to the Focus, but her towbar had a slight bend in it, which I offered to pay for instead of telling her to learn to drive! We swapped details and then the next couple of days said all her bloody passengers had claimed for whiplash!
Silly Cow! I can say that safe in the knowledge that none of her inbred family are reading because they live in the sticks where computers are a myth! Anyway the amount of money she cost my Dad cos of his insurance I'd say it to all of them!
In the end I decided not to argue too much against it cos i was fighting a losing battle.
It is terrible what these people get away with. Im into mountain biking and rallying etc, if I put a claim in every time I fell of or braked hard I'd be rich!
A couple of years ago I was driving my Mum's Ford, I came up behind a woman in an old Celica with about 6 people in it! She went to pull of the round about then slammed her foot on the brakes, I went in the back of her at about 10 mph. No damage to the Focus, but her towbar had a slight bend in it, which I offered to pay for instead of telling her to learn to drive! We swapped details and then the next couple of days said all her bloody passengers had claimed for whiplash!
Silly Cow! I can say that safe in the knowledge that none of her inbred family are reading because they live in the sticks where computers are a myth! Anyway the amount of money she cost my Dad cos of his insurance I'd say it to all of them!
In the end I decided not to argue too much against it cos i was fighting a losing battle.
It is terrible what these people get away with. Im into mountain biking and rallying etc, if I put a claim in every time I fell of or braked hard I'd be rich!
09 October 2001, 02:29 PM
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Added a few bits to my previous post.
It must be a very frustrating position to be in.
Like you say, the best way to avoid in future is to make sure there is ample space in front of you and err on the side of caution.
Boring but worth it
Sorry. Observation and anticipation is the name of the game. Always assume the person in front is a shocking driver and keep back. Half the time they are anyway
Hate to say it but I feel age is a big factor in 'aware' driving. When I was 20 I was a fair driver and thought I was quite good because I could go fast and slalom in and out of cars etc. Could probably have got round a track quite well, but on the road is a different ball game.
As you get older if you take pride in your driving you realise that the good drivers allow room for everyone else's mistakes, lack of brake lights, tw@ts who use 2 lanes in a roundabout and just have no idea at all that you're even there etc.
Still makes you mad sometimes but the better driver will have left room for these people to cut you up etc. rather than hearing and feeling the impact as they just drive into you!!
Unless you have got alongside early enough so they can see you out of their window of course. In which case they have no choice but to stay in their lane and use the roundabout properly! (until the next roundabout)
any idea of my pet hate yet? ;-)
just my personal opinion
cheers
[This message has been edited by juan (edited 09 October 2001).]
It must be a very frustrating position to be in.
Like you say, the best way to avoid in future is to make sure there is ample space in front of you and err on the side of caution.
Boring but worth it
Sorry. Observation and anticipation is the name of the game. Always assume the person in front is a shocking driver and keep back. Half the time they are anyway
Hate to say it but I feel age is a big factor in 'aware' driving. When I was 20 I was a fair driver and thought I was quite good because I could go fast and slalom in and out of cars etc. Could probably have got round a track quite well, but on the road is a different ball game.
As you get older if you take pride in your driving you realise that the good drivers allow room for everyone else's mistakes, lack of brake lights, tw@ts who use 2 lanes in a roundabout and just have no idea at all that you're even there etc.
Still makes you mad sometimes but the better driver will have left room for these people to cut you up etc. rather than hearing and feeling the impact as they just drive into you!!
Unless you have got alongside early enough so they can see you out of their window of course. In which case they have no choice but to stay in their lane and use the roundabout properly! (until the next roundabout)
any idea of my pet hate yet? ;-)
just my personal opinion
cheers
[This message has been edited by juan (edited 09 October 2001).]
09 October 2001, 02:36 PM
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juan
agree with all your points, and yes it was my fault, but considering it was maybe 1mph...not even scratched paint and shes claiming personal injuries? come on. for that i would expect for the rear of her car to be nicely stuffed in.
argrhgrhr
agree with all your points, and yes it was my fault, but considering it was maybe 1mph...not even scratched paint and shes claiming personal injuries? come on. for that i would expect for the rear of her car to be nicely stuffed in.
argrhgrhr
09 October 2001, 02:41 PM
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100 per cent on your side
I'd like nothing more than to see these scheming bstds get some time inside for their crimes!!
At the end of the day it IS fraud like an earlier poster said.
Me personally, I'd do my utmost to show her up as a liar. The earlier poster had a good few suggestions for starting with.
However this approach might not be the best and will be undoubtedly difficult to prove. Different strokes for different folks. Depends if you don't mind putting in the time, whether you have a lot of other commitments / stress already and don't need more etc. I'd be mad enough to do my utmost to show the truth, but for other people maybe insurance is better.
were there any witnesses?
could work in your favour if it does go through insurance.
[This message has been edited by juan (edited 09 October 2001).]
I'd like nothing more than to see these scheming bstds get some time inside for their crimes!!
At the end of the day it IS fraud like an earlier poster said.
Me personally, I'd do my utmost to show her up as a liar. The earlier poster had a good few suggestions for starting with.
However this approach might not be the best and will be undoubtedly difficult to prove. Different strokes for different folks. Depends if you don't mind putting in the time, whether you have a lot of other commitments / stress already and don't need more etc. I'd be mad enough to do my utmost to show the truth, but for other people maybe insurance is better.
were there any witnesses?
could work in your favour if it does go through insurance.
[This message has been edited by juan (edited 09 October 2001).]
09 October 2001, 02:45 PM
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you could initially reply to her solicitors disagreeing with her and asking for proof of any accident and proof of any injuries,
and could also point out that if your insurance company discovers a fraudulent claim their client could face prosecution and maybe they should discuss the matter further with their client before attempting to proceed?
seems only fair that they should priovide this before expecting you to part with your hard earned
[This message has been edited by juan (edited 09 October 2001).]
and could also point out that if your insurance company discovers a fraudulent claim their client could face prosecution and maybe they should discuss the matter further with their client before attempting to proceed?
seems only fair that they should priovide this before expecting you to part with your hard earned
[This message has been edited by juan (edited 09 October 2001).]
09 October 2001, 02:48 PM
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there must be sites on the web that offer legal advice. I'm sure I've seen some mentioned in the past on various tv programmes
might be worth having an intial meeting with a a solicitor or lawyere who specialises in motor cases or some such. Explain that you can't afford to emply him for the whole case but would happily pay for an hour of his time and advice
[This message has been edited by juan (edited 09 October 2001).]
might be worth having an intial meeting with a a solicitor or lawyere who specialises in motor cases or some such. Explain that you can't afford to emply him for the whole case but would happily pay for an hour of his time and advice
[This message has been edited by juan (edited 09 October 2001).]
09 October 2001, 02:59 PM
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yes, i have a witness...albeit a friends dad, he was in the left hand lane by coincidence.
i'll get talking to my insurers tommorrow.
i'll get talking to my insurers tommorrow.
09 October 2001, 03:04 PM
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well thats a real bonus if it gets nasty
forget the fact that he's your friend's dad
If he really saw the incident his story should confirm at minimum that there was no chance of whiplash, and also if he was closer should confirm the lack of apparent damage.
if you respond to their lawyers, you could mention that you have a witness and again highlight the fact that fraudulent claims are punishable. That should make them think.
I'd feel a lot happier having a witness. Have you spoken to him and is he willing?
once insurance comapnies are involved I don't know about your chances of avoiding a claim but at least you have a good chance of denying this c0w her fraudulent whiplash injuries.
Also, did you mention the brake light thing to her? If not mention it to the insurance company and they can check it (though of course it may have been fixed in the meantime). Doesn't absolve you of blame but all helps
[This message has been edited by juan (edited 09 October 2001).]
forget the fact that he's your friend's dad
If he really saw the incident his story should confirm at minimum that there was no chance of whiplash, and also if he was closer should confirm the lack of apparent damage.
if you respond to their lawyers, you could mention that you have a witness and again highlight the fact that fraudulent claims are punishable. That should make them think.
I'd feel a lot happier having a witness. Have you spoken to him and is he willing?
once insurance comapnies are involved I don't know about your chances of avoiding a claim but at least you have a good chance of denying this c0w her fraudulent whiplash injuries.
Also, did you mention the brake light thing to her? If not mention it to the insurance company and they can check it (though of course it may have been fixed in the meantime). Doesn't absolve you of blame but all helps
[This message has been edited by juan (edited 09 October 2001).]
09 October 2001, 03:15 PM
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not sure whether its best to talk to her lawyers first, or your insurance company, as I thought the original objective was to keep it away from an insurance claim
I'd be tempted to go for a personal letter to the lawyer first saying there was the smallest of touches with no damage incurred although you decided to pay her farcical claim for 50 quid as FULL compensation just for convenience. Tell them you have a witness and there is no way that any injuries could occur from this accident.
and mentioning the fact that this is a fraudulent claim and if they persist you will report them to your insurance company for investigation, and if found guilty their client could be looking at prosecution.
guess it depends how soon you want to involve insurance comapny. No t surfe if you are legally required to tell insurance company of any accidents you have, although obviously many small scrapes are settled privately and insurance company never knows.
I'd be tempted to go for a personal letter to the lawyer first saying there was the smallest of touches with no damage incurred although you decided to pay her farcical claim for 50 quid as FULL compensation just for convenience. Tell them you have a witness and there is no way that any injuries could occur from this accident.
and mentioning the fact that this is a fraudulent claim and if they persist you will report them to your insurance company for investigation, and if found guilty their client could be looking at prosecution.
guess it depends how soon you want to involve insurance comapny. No t surfe if you are legally required to tell insurance company of any accidents you have, although obviously many small scrapes are settled privately and insurance company never knows.
09 October 2001, 05:27 PM
#20
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What ever you do DO NOT write to her or her solicitors
The insurance company take a very dim view of this (NEVER admit guilt)
Let them do there job and they will throw out this fancifull claim in the fullness of time
Phil
The insurance company take a very dim view of this (NEVER admit guilt)
Let them do there job and they will throw out this fancifull claim in the fullness of time
Phil
09 October 2001, 05:29 PM
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I stand corrected!
I guess the insurance company has a lot more chance of getting the gits to back down as they have muscle and knowledge and don't like paying out.
But then you wonder why so many of these fake whiplash/injury/damage cases get paid out if insurance companies are so on the ball. Have seen programmes on the telly with undercover reporters investigating exactly this. Plenty of the more dodgy solicitors will encourage their clients to fabricate greater claims.
[This message has been edited by juan (edited 09 October 2001).]
I guess the insurance company has a lot more chance of getting the gits to back down as they have muscle and knowledge and don't like paying out.
But then you wonder why so many of these fake whiplash/injury/damage cases get paid out if insurance companies are so on the ball. Have seen programmes on the telly with undercover reporters investigating exactly this. Plenty of the more dodgy solicitors will encourage their clients to fabricate greater claims.
[This message has been edited by juan (edited 09 October 2001).]
09 October 2001, 05:36 PM
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hi insbro
yep, my solicitor told me NOT to reply - i guess in case i write something that unknowingly admits guilt or gets me in a legal bind. he said forward it to the ins company.
not looking forward to doing that tommorrow, god knows what they'll do, or not as the case may be.
steven
yep, my solicitor told me NOT to reply - i guess in case i write something that unknowingly admits guilt or gets me in a legal bind. he said forward it to the ins company.
not looking forward to doing that tommorrow, god knows what they'll do, or not as the case may be.
steven
11 October 2001, 03:20 PM
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Sorry to hear of your problems mate. Talking to a lawyer pal of mine & he advised the following.
1. Inform your insurance co ASAP
2. Consult with a lawyer and only communicate with them and your insurance co.
3. Leave the rest to them.
He thinks that it is a try on. Main reason being the length of time between the accident and the letter. Will also be impossible for them to claim injury without a doctors support and whiplash does not take 2 months to appear. They must prove loss of earnings and injury and even then tie it to the specific event.
Hope this helps
Alasdair
1. Inform your insurance co ASAP
2. Consult with a lawyer and only communicate with them and your insurance co.
3. Leave the rest to them.
He thinks that it is a try on. Main reason being the length of time between the accident and the letter. Will also be impossible for them to claim injury without a doctors support and whiplash does not take 2 months to appear. They must prove loss of earnings and injury and even then tie it to the specific event.
Hope this helps
Alasdair
11 October 2001, 03:37 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Alas:
<B>Sorry to hear of your problems mate. Talking to a lawyer pal of mine & he advised the following.
1. Inform your insurance co ASAP
2. Consult with a lawyer and only communicate with them and your insurance co.
3. Leave the rest to them.
He thinks that it is a try on. Main reason being the length of time between the accident and the letter. Will also be impossible for them to claim injury without a doctors support and whiplash does not take 2 months to appear. They must prove loss of earnings and injury and even then tie it to the specific event.
Hope this helps
Alasdair[/quote]
Brilliant advice! Basically this woman has been talking to someone and has decided to try it on. No insurance company in the land is going to pay anything without a doctors report. Hopefully she will be charged by the police for trying to make a fraudulent insurance claim!!
Good luck
<B>Sorry to hear of your problems mate. Talking to a lawyer pal of mine & he advised the following.
1. Inform your insurance co ASAP
2. Consult with a lawyer and only communicate with them and your insurance co.
3. Leave the rest to them.
He thinks that it is a try on. Main reason being the length of time between the accident and the letter. Will also be impossible for them to claim injury without a doctors support and whiplash does not take 2 months to appear. They must prove loss of earnings and injury and even then tie it to the specific event.
Hope this helps
Alasdair[/quote]
Brilliant advice! Basically this woman has been talking to someone and has decided to try it on. No insurance company in the land is going to pay anything without a doctors report. Hopefully she will be charged by the police for trying to make a fraudulent insurance claim!!
Good luck
11 October 2001, 03:40 PM
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The letter from the solicitor sounds completely bogus. A solicitor would generally set a cost for damages and ask you to pay this cost or agree to terms. They would not ask you to accept liability, as your insurance company will not cover a claim if you do so. They (insurance company) need to decide liability. If the solicitor goes after you he has little chance of getting the money without a prolonged battle whereas if he has a legitimate case he will deal directly with the insurance company and get it settled in a few days
11 October 2001, 04:25 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by midget1500:
<B>i thought about just denying it, but i don't want to end up lying. her car has NO damage, i've seen carpark shunts that are much harder, also with no damage.
teach me for not leaving enough space in front of me when i stop[/quote]
Let me make this clear - saying ANYTHING untruthful in a matter regarding insurance companies, lawyers, the police etc is stupid to the extreme. If you get caught, you could end up behind bars. The courts are full of normal people who thought they could get away with telling a little fib, they just don't realise how easy it is to get caught out. Got that? Now will people please stop giving MORONIC advice like "deny all knowledge" etc! I am serious, people have gone to jail for exactly that - fraud is a serious criminal offence!
<B>i thought about just denying it, but i don't want to end up lying. her car has NO damage, i've seen carpark shunts that are much harder, also with no damage.
teach me for not leaving enough space in front of me when i stop
[/quote]Let me make this clear - saying ANYTHING untruthful in a matter regarding insurance companies, lawyers, the police etc is stupid to the extreme. If you get caught, you could end up behind bars. The courts are full of normal people who thought they could get away with telling a little fib, they just don't realise how easy it is to get caught out. Got that? Now will people please stop giving MORONIC advice like "deny all knowledge" etc! I am serious, people have gone to jail for exactly that - fraud is a serious criminal offence!
12 October 2001, 09:07 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by fast bloke:
<B>They would not ask you to accept liability, as your insurance company will not cover a claim if you do so. They (insurance company) need to decide liability. If the solicitor goes after you he has little chance of getting the money without a prolonged battle whereas if he has a legitimate case he will deal directly with the insurance company and get it settled in a few days[/quote]
No one seems to have mentioned this - but by handing over the cheque to cover the 'damage' for the incident - liability has been accepted. This does not mean that damages can be had without reasobable evidence - but you should be glad you don't live in the States. Even when insurers pay out they will have a cover letter stating 'Without Prejudice' - meaning we'll pay up in good faith but we ain't accepting responsibility. Insurers as a rule NEVER accept liability for anything - they are merely your representatives.
Insurers do this to protect themselves against consquential loss, which they would be open too if they admitted liability.
I hate to be negative - but you also may find that by handing over a cheque, or not reporting the incident in the first place, that you have invalidated your insurance cover.
You're going to have to have an honest chat with your Insurers about this one.
Sorry to have a downer mate - she is trying it on, but your gonna need some help on this one. Try the Citizens Advice - they could help you.
Cheers,
Trout
<B>They would not ask you to accept liability, as your insurance company will not cover a claim if you do so. They (insurance company) need to decide liability. If the solicitor goes after you he has little chance of getting the money without a prolonged battle whereas if he has a legitimate case he will deal directly with the insurance company and get it settled in a few days[/quote]
No one seems to have mentioned this - but by handing over the cheque to cover the 'damage' for the incident - liability has been accepted. This does not mean that damages can be had without reasobable evidence - but you should be glad you don't live in the States. Even when insurers pay out they will have a cover letter stating 'Without Prejudice' - meaning we'll pay up in good faith but we ain't accepting responsibility. Insurers as a rule NEVER accept liability for anything - they are merely your representatives.
Insurers do this to protect themselves against consquential loss, which they would be open too if they admitted liability.
I hate to be negative - but you also may find that by handing over a cheque, or not reporting the incident in the first place, that you have invalidated your insurance cover.
You're going to have to have an honest chat with your Insurers about this one.
Sorry to have a downer mate - she is trying it on, but your gonna need some help on this one. Try the Citizens Advice - they could help you.
Cheers,
Trout
12 October 2001, 09:56 AM
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Location: Bangor, Northern Ireland
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Contacted my insurers 2 days ago, told them everything. They've handed it over to their legal deptartment who will then contact me for the letters etc in a few days.
Regarding liability, i made it clear to the insurers that the check was presented as goodwill and seemed appropriate at the time. however, clearly now the situation has changed.
fingers crossed
cheers
steven
Regarding liability, i made it clear to the insurers that the check was presented as goodwill and seemed appropriate at the time. however, clearly now the situation has changed.
fingers crossed
cheers
steven