ex-webby

It has come to my attention that a scooby meet in North Yorkshire on Sunday 7th of October resulted in dangerous driving to the extent that there have been complaints from people that were nearly involved in an accident due to it.

I want to make something VERY clear indeed.

ScoobyNet DOES NOT in ANY way condone the organisation of group drive during meets organised on this board.

They are patentially lethal. It seems to be only a matter of time before someone is seriously hurt.

This kind of thing is not only endangering our friends, and members of the public, but also bringing a bad name to Scooby drivers.

Please can we all ensure that this does not happen at any "ScoobyNet meets" or meets organised under the scoobynet banner as I dread the day when we need to close the board for a day out of respect for a friend we have all lost (or even worse).

Best regards

webmaster

Blow Dog

Well said.

Unfortunately, one of our enthusiastic drives ended in tears about 6 months ago.

Because of this, nobody from the group has been out since. Keep it on the track dudes.

Cem

RichS

Have to say I agree (whether or not my agreeing actually matters!)

I've only been on one Scooby group drive, but it was enough to convince me of the inherent dangers of playing follow-my-leader at, shall we say, inappropriate speeds.

Like everyone else, I like to enjoy my scoob, but at my own pace thank you.

Rich

SDB

Rich.

I TOTALLY agree..

we ALL like to put our foot down from time to time, that's normal.. but the problem with group drives is that the guy in front feels obliged to go faster, and the guy behind feels obliged to keep up, making a chain reaction of drivers all driving over their abilities and the conditions, etc.

I think not having them would be a small price to pay for the safety side, and the public opinion aspects alone.

Luke

We know who you are.....

Be cool

Shark

I'm not going into detail, but I will say that I will never go on a group drive again, and would advise that you discard this advise at your and others peril.

David

steve McCulloch

I think we all know who the nutter was on the NM6

Some plonker in a light Blue UK Scoob with PIAA lights - get a life you idiots and respect other people's road space and safety

If you want to be an idiot take it to a racing track meeet - at least then you will only right off your own car......... and reduce danger on others

jon44w

Everyone please drive safely in general now that the bad weather is in ( did it ever leave?! )

Be VERY careful and keep an eye out for those corners with dreaded wet leaves and big puddles.

Speaking from experience,

jonny.

Markus

it just takes one nutter to have us all tarred with the same brush.

I'm no saint, but I'm not a total nutter either.

I've been on the odd run which is known for being a bit 'progressive' and am amazed that nothing really serious has occured and I'm glad it has not

let's be carefult out there.

from a curiosity aspect I'd be interested to know what went on, obviously via email.

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

I've not been on a group drive for the reasons stated above, I thought I was the only one frightened to do it - obviously not

I've been in convoys to meets however and have to say that I've been really pleased with the way they've been driven - no heroics or prattish manoeuvres - well done Steve Cotton

We all drive fast cars because we like going fast, hopefully most of us are sensible enough to save it for the right time and place and not get carried away showing off our self percieved driving skills to others. We're never as good as we think we are and we're certainly not able to predict what we'll find around the next corner.

It really pisses me off when I read on here people bragging about their so-called driving skills, I'm sure these are the same people who cause accidents and give the rest of the scooby community a bad name, not to mention cause our insurance premiums to rise I hope I never have the misfortune to meet you on the road

<rant off>

Sal

[This message has been edited by scoobychick (edited 09 October 2001).]

DaveD

iTrader: (2)

While I totally agree with the above, I would just like to say that the majority of meets I have been on are well organised and have been taken at everyones own pace. They are not races.

A case in point was the excellent Tour of Derbyshire run last weekend, organised by Charlie Whiskey & Scoobabe. I was in a small group of 5 cars lead by CW, and we all drove at a comfortable pace for ALL of us. If anyone got left behind, those in front slowed-up to allow others to safely catch up. It was a relaxing day, and in our group at least, safe.

However, I have witnessed on the odd occasion people trying to do silly things in their cars - I get the feeling that some people get some kind of 'invinsibility complex'. Unfortunately, none of us are invinsible, and you can only have so many close shaves.....

logiclee

We should all take responsibilty for our own driving on group drives. Remember the Porsche drivers who killed an innocent motorist when returning from a club meet. Do we need this to happen and Scoobynet and the SIDC on the news for this reason before we act more responsibly?

I've been on many convoys to track days which have been driven sensibly but the pace can get out of hand on weekend drive type meets. Its time for everyone to think a little more on these events.

Cheers
Lee

Big Bear

I have been on several drives that have been organised on Scoobnet, on all of these drives I have driven well within my capabilities and the capability of the car . This is mainly because I don't know what is around the next corner , I like my car (when it is on the road) and I would like to keep it a bit longer .
Just my thoughts Dave

stephen emery

agree
Put my hand up and say i had moments of madness.
got caught speeding and band for 3 months ( 3 years ago), went on sidc police driving couse in essex!
6 months later brother- in -law died on m6
If you like speed, i still do, then stick to the track not the road

MTR

Simon,
I have had sleepless nights prior to each of the NM3,NM4,NM5,NM6 series of Meets that I have organised, worrying about all manner of things to do with the succesful running of the events.

One of my BIGGEST concerns was that someone could be injured or killed.

If I had ever been involved in being the instigator of a sequence of events which led ultimately to someone losing their life, I do not think I would be able to cope with the emotional upset it would cause myself and my family.

The point about feeling that you need to drive faster when leading, to let the following group 'have some fun' is very difficult to resist. Which as you point out then encourages the following cars to do the same.

On NM6 I attempted to 'pick' a lead driver for each group that the others had to follow, who I I had asked to act in a responsible manner and keep the speeds and driving standard to a safe level.

In fact one of the attendees phoned me the night before because he too was worried that it may be seen as a road race, with people attending, to show who was the 'fastest gun in the west'. With the obvious risks involved.

I cannot criticise people for driving at whatever speed they feel is suitable, even if I may not want to do the same at the same time, because I have been equally guilty of pushing harder than is probably safe for myself and others.

It is foolish, and I take no pride in having done so.

I had a husband, wife and their young daughter following me round on NM6, and the whole time I was worrying about what speed I should drive at, to ensure their safety.

All attendees hold a moral responsibility to try and curb some of the extremes of their driving styles, purely out of respect and consideration of the organiser/s, who may like me be born worriers, and the other attendees, some of of whom have children with them.

Cheers MTR

AllanB

Must agree that any meet with more than or 4 cars is asking for trouble, especailly if you don't know the other people. I've been on 2 meets which have had major incidents that have really upset me and I don't go on these drives as a result.

Lets all enjoy our cars in a sensible way and not endanger other road users and get our community a bad reputation. If you want to drive flat out do it on the track.

AllanB

robski

Good point Si.

I remember the last day scoobynet was closed for a day.

I must admit, Im not going to do the Cambridge ring for exactly this reason.

robski

Otis

I was at the meet in question and in fact the meetings organised by this BBS member are the only ones I go on due to how sensible the pace is. As always EVERY car dropped to the 30 and 40 zones where appropriate. Outside these zones the pace was 'progressive' but not excessive. As always well organised, off the beaten track and a pleasure to attend.

HOWEVER, on this occassion we had a visitor with a point to prove, came past me at one point well over 100mph semi-airbourne (thanks for the gravel rash mate - the bill is in the post) and I do not doubt for a minute that he fits into the frame somewhere with the incident in question. He shouldn't be allowed on any more and the handful he 'bated' need a slap.

I would hate the meets to vanish, especially these particular ones - its part of what owning a Scoob is about for me. Nevertheless the Webmaster is totally right and something needs to be done before its too late. I mean how about a set of guidlines for organisers to follow, regulars to adhere to and Newbies to seek guidance from? Such things as recommended maximum attendance, number of cars to depart in a group, time seperating each group and so on. I'm sure all of us who have been on a meet must have at least one criticism or idea in us.

Anyway, just an idea.

Otis.

tonybooth

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MTR:

"I had a husband, wife and their young daughter following me round on NM6, and the whole time I was worrying about what speed I should drive at, to ensure their safety."

I was that husband with wife and 4 year old in the car. We had a really enjoyable day, and MTR has a very quick car. I did not even try to keep up as I would have been driving in excess of my own limitations. I am a competent driver (RoSPA, IAM, Ex-Police etc.) but I AM NOT PERFECT. I know my limits. MAKE SURE YOU KNOW YOURS.

I will attend more group meets until such time as I feel unsafe or pressured by others. At this time I will take a detour and go home.

Similarly, I love trackdays. Maybe I have been lucky, but the track etiquette I have experienced has been superb. Again, should this change, I will be the first one to take an early bath.

I always remember a proverb from Police training.

"SKILL WITH RESPONSIBILTY - NO INCIDENT IS WORTH AN ACCIDENT"

For all our sakes - Lets be careful out there.

TONY

ChrisB

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>ScoobyNet DOES NOT in ANY way condone the organisation of group drive during meets organised on this board<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can you clarify this Simon? Without wanting to put words into your mouth...

Should we not arrange anything other than a meet at a pub (ie no organised drive to get there) and then depart?

What about "official" SIDC meets? Obviously these can be sorted out on the SIDC BBS but ScoobyNet has always been the place for the social side of Subaru ownership.

I don't have a problem with letting quicker people past. I've been in one big mother of a car crash already and I'm quite happy to avoid further visits to A&E.

I would like to add that all the driving I saw on the Tour O'Derbyshire on Sunday was, as usual, excellent.

ChrisB.

ex-webby

Hi Chaps

Thank you for the supportive and sensible comments.

Chris
the SIDC prohibits ANY group driving on events (obviously except track days), and this is the stand I would like to take with scoobynet also.

I know it's a shame in some ways, but the dangers are VERY real.

The incident in question seemed to involve a large number of Scoobs in convoy (around 10?) so it's not an isolated individual, but the entire convoy.

It is not fair to put the onus on the person leading the convoy either. Everyone is doing the speed they are doing of their own accord. BUT...

It is the *event* that causes the problem, not the individuals. We've all been there, and all felt the pressure to join in, and would probably never consider driving like that in other circumstances. So..

Chris
To answer your question. ANY event that is organised with a ScoobyNet banner must have no group drives associated with it.

If they are going to be organised then there is nothing we can do about that, but ScoobyNet officially DEEPLY opposes them.

Best regards

Simon

CharlieWhiskey

As an organiser of such meets I can only echo MTR's concerns!

I always state that it is NOT a Scoobynet or SIDC event, NOT a race etc. etc.!!!

We need to make sure that the 'idiots' out there do not spoil this enjoyment for the rest of us!

I would be grateful if someone could mail me offline with the identity of the culprit so that he can be banned from partaking in further events I also suggest that he be kicked off Scoobynet/SIDC or anything else he can be identified with!

I agree that you need known, experienced leaders in each small group with navigators(unless they know it anyway).

Newbies should be inducted safely and the idiots dealt with!

I would not like any sort of accident or incident to tar these events or the good names of either Scoobynet or the SIDC!

Perhaps us 'organisers' should get our heads together. I have already produced some guidelines, in conjucntion with Neil Micklethwaite of the SIDC and would be willing to work with other 'organisers' to minimise risk and promote safe and responsible driving!

Chris

[This message has been edited by CharlieWhiskey (edited 09 October 2001).]

ChrisB

I'm booked on the Tour D'Ecosse in November...

Mellow Yellow !

iTrader: (1)

Well voiced Chris.

matt d

I've not been on one of these meets, except one in the pub where driving was not involved (obviously!). However I have been on several organised by another bbs (Evo mag forum). I've only once seen remotely careless driving there, out of about 70 people. They have often been fast, but only when the road is clear. IMO there is nothing wrong with group drives, it is merely the attitude of people who attend.

It is tempting to criticise them because of one or two dangerous incidents. Believe me I disapprove of that as much as the next man. But one person driving fast up front DOES not necesasrily result in others trying to play catch up. That only happens if i) the others think it is safe to do so, given conditions and their ability ii) they don't care about safety. It's the people, not the events, that are to blame IMO. Although I understand "webmasters" position. Let's face it people, why not go faster on track rather than endanger normal people on the road at lower speeds???

banshi

I am perhaps easily confused, but could someone provide a clear an unequivocal statement on this issue?

Comments so far are somewhat contradictory and include:-

The SIDC prohibits ANY group driving on events (obviously except track days), and this is the stand I would like to take with scoobynet also. (Webmaster)
The SIDC have allowed group drives, but there are strict conditions. Never more than 4 cars and driven at a pace that complies with the RTA and could not bring the SIDC into disrepute. (Mr Croney)

"a scooby meet in North Yorkshire on Sunday 7th of October resulted in dangerous driving" (Webmaster)
This came about from an email the SIDC received, from a group of cyclists, one of whom was very nearly hit and killed on NM6 (Mr Croney)

ScoobyNet DOES NOT in ANY way condone the organisation of group drive during meets organised on this board.
&
ANY event that is organised with a ScoobyNet banner must have no group drives associated with it........ScoobyNet officially DEEPLY opposes them.

Nonetheless these meets continue to be planned and discussed in each regional forum.

Neil Micklethwaite

I organised the Staffordshire Meet earlier in the year from which most of people hold the guidelines mentioned above.

I was worried about the standard of driving on such events and the possibility of an accident besmirching the name of myself as organiser, the SIDC , The SIDC Committee and Scoobynet or even worse an attendee or some third party being injured or killed.

Following on from comments on this BBS from Pete Croney regarding the SIDC stance on group drives I did consider cancelling the meet.

His stance was basically taken after hearing about high speed 'races' occuring during some meets/drives.

I produced the 'Guidelines' after consulting with Pete and they have been improved subsequently.

Ergo the groups were split into small groups of 4 cars and all drivers agreed to drive to the Guidelines, as I got them to sign an indemnity saying that they would abide by the Guildeines and they were attending at their own risk.

The guidelines now state that ALL Drivers stay within the confines of the Road Traffic act.

On the meet itself the level of driving was exemplary and we only had one instance of a 'Fender Bender' ( which was one too many ).

I also intend that for future meets only people who register an interest will be allowed to attend and take part in the drive.

The route will only be given out to drivers who have signed and returned the indemnity to myself.

Anybody found driving outside the guildeines will be asked to leave and NOT welcome to attend any future event that I organise and their details forwarded to the SIDC committee.

The future of this type of event is in the hands of the members of the SIDC / Scoobynet.

They are designed to be fun and not as a race.

If the SIDC Committee decide that this type of event is not to be organised then I would obviously desist from organising further events of this kind.

Neil Micklethwaite

Edited Due to Double post

[This message has been edited by Neil Micklethwaite (edited 10 October 2001).]

ex-webby

banshi

I think I may have mis-interpreted the statement made in an email to me from Pete Croney which said

"The Subaru Impreza Drivers Club prohibit any group driving on events"

Perhaps this could be cleared up once and for all.

All the best

Simon

Neil Micklethwaite

Hi guys

Pete's post regarding 4 cars and conditions answers this one I hope.