EdwardH

I am spending the weekend in Brussels and have been taken out in the host's car ( not scoob )both in town and on motorways.

It has made me realise what a crap deal we get as drivers in the UK.

Driver's here have rights!

A number of observations;

-you can drive fast ( and safely)
-you can park easily ( driving your car in the city is encouraged )
-roads are free of ********* despite the faster and 'assertive' driving style
-no traffic jams
-quiet motorways
-nil gatso ( only occasionally on motorways )
-fines not points if you do get caught
-no anti car gov policy
-no road rage or gesticulation

Britain is getting really nauseating when it comes to cars and driving.

'Scooby Party' for government at the next election?

Ed

[This message has been edited by EdwardH (edited 27-02-2000).]

Mark Underwood

Edward

i know what u mean. Only traffic jams is the ring road around brussels as they are still building it but otherwise I agree.

Gaffer

I dont agree at all. Some of the worst driving I have ever seen is from Belgians who think nothing of tailgating you at high speeds in the wet, where due to the appalling drainage on the m'ways you can't see more than 50' yds due to the spray! Added to this is the habit of the truckies blocking a 2 lane carriageway for 5 minutes because the overtakers speed limiter is set at 0.0001 mph faster than the other! Roll on Germany!

Cheers

EvilBevel

Ed,

Don't want to burst your Belgian weekend bubble, but ...

>-you can drive fast ( and safely)

Sometimes. Very rare actually.

-you can park easily ( driving your car in the city is encouraged )

No way. Try Brussels, Leuven, or Antwerp on a normal weekday. Is horrible, and very expensive. People refuse jobs when they are located in the centres of cities.

-roads are free of ********* despite the faster and 'assertive' driving style

Were you driving on a track ? Zolder. Francorchamps ? I always thought that ********* were subsidized over here ?

-no traffic jams

Not so much on a weekend, no... try a weekday.

-nil gatso ( only occasionally on motorways )

Sorry, just not true. Probably less here than in the UK, but on the same type of spots : long straights where nothing ever happens. Our police if very "international" in that regard.

-fines not points if you do get caught

Coincidence. Politicians over here have been trying for 10 years now to get the points system. Would probably do more justice than the current "how does the magistrate feel today .. hmm .. bad night ? OK, you loose
your drivers licence for the next 2 weeks" depending on what province you're speeding.

-no anti car gov policy

'scuse me ? How does paying about $3.000 pounds just to be able to join traffic sound to you (tax for an Impreza just for bringing it "into traffic". You sell it tomorrow ? OK, next guy still has to pay $3.000 pounds to "bring it into traffic" again. Apart from all other taxes.) Add VAT (21 %), taxes on fuel, radio, ...

-no road rage or gesticulation

Two weeks ago, a 4 year old was killed because of road rage (somebody standing on the breaks on a highway). Last year, at least 3 people were murdered (knifed) in a fight over a parking spot. Belgians are famous for tailgating as well. Fog ? Just keep on pushing the loud pedal ...

Are you sure you were visiting Belgium ?

Theo

DavidRB

I drove in Belgium once. On four separate occasions, cars drove up slip roads and attempted to join the highways, only to be blocked by cars/lorries already on the highway. Rather than back off and wait, they all accelerated over the end of the slip road and bounced along the grass verge (at around 40mph) until they found a big enough gap, at which point they pulled in!!

EdwardH

Theo/EvilBevil,

I accept 'first impressions' criticism as I only went for the weekend. (However, I did live in the Commune d'Uccle for 3 years, ten years ago so I do know Brussels reasonably well.)

To put it in context Sabena (Such A Bloody Experience Never Again, S-A-B-E-N-A get it?) cancelled my flight back to City airport in London today, and sent me to Heathrow.

Consequently they ( with pressure) came up with a cab home for me and the wife to the east end of London.

2 hours 15 minutes with (no extraordinary delays) it took - not at rush hour either.

Would you think that reasonable to get from Zaventum to Central Station in Brussels?

Sorry, I did not mean to paint Brussels as perfect but relatively (as these things are) it seems pretty good to me.

Being a Londoner,

-you can't realistically drive to work in Central London
-you can't park ( 400Bf/hour - City or West End)
-you get stuffed for insurance
-gatsos are like a rash - ever driven on the A2 into London - Gatso at least every kilometer
-no inner ring road therefore 30mph my friend
-congested always even (and particularly)at the weekend
-congested completely - ever driven in and out of London for a working day?
-you can't move

Of course Brussels has great eating out too.


Ed

[This message has been edited by EdwardH (edited 28-02-2000).]

chrisd

The number of people getting killed in road accidents is the highest of all in belgium. Don't drink and drive ,remember.

spence

I agree with the above, the Belgums even scare the Dutch and they can be a bit agreesive in their driving. Does make for faster times to Calais for the ferry though... just have to rember to hit the brakes when you cross the French border as they are like our Police and come down like a ton of bricks on speeders...

EvilBevel

Ed,

No real criticism was intended (I thought about editing my post down to a mere "driving s*cks here too, you know, you just missed it <g>")

>>However, I did live in the Commune d'Uccle for 3 years

One of the nicest places in Brussels, that's for sure. But things really have changed over the last 10 years. Every morning, traffic into Brussels is standing still from Leuven, Mechelen (or even closer to Antwerp), Aalst ... What's worse is that even the B-roads are more than congested.

>>Would you think that reasonable to get from Zaventum to Central Station in Brussels?

Depends on the day really. One serious accident on the ring and yes, you can get that sort of travel times over here as well, but not on an average weekend, I agree.

>-you get stuffed for insurance

I don't know how to compare notes, but I pay about 833 pounds per year "fully insured" for the Impreza. That's after 14 years of driving with no claims (I'm 37).

-congested always even (and particularly)at the weekend

Damned furriners <g>. Must be the tourist thing. But don't forget that Brussels is actually very small and dull compared to London, European Capital or not.

-congested completely - ever driven in and out of London for a working day?

Never had the pleasure. Did drive around in Rome though, and that was big fun. Not for the faint of heart, mind you.

>-you can't move

OK, Brussels over London, I'll give you that. But for the rest, I think you have a lot more yummy roads away from the cities. Over here, you can drive a 100 kilometers without ever leaving "urban area", and you have to go to the Ardens to get some Impreza friendly roads.

>Of course Brussels has great eating out too.

No discussion there. Actually, in Belgium, you can't swing a dead cat and not hit a decent restaurant where ever you are.

Were you visiting the "Cultural Capital of Europe" happenings ?

Theo

PS : even a member of our royal family now drives a UK spec Impreza. Don't know if that's good or bad news ...

PaulL

The only trouble with living in Belgium is that it's full of Belgians

Hope the wife's not reading this, as she's one of them, and so these days is over half my family - d'oh!

LOL

PaulL

ALANB

The only thing I can remember about driving in Belgium was their way of removing middle-lane hogs (MLHs).
Car puttering along in middle lane,
Part one, truck moves up to within an inch of his bumper, no reaction...
Part two, fast car in outside lane moves alongside MLH and then, indicator flashing, moves over on top of him and pushes him into slow lane, with the truck still on his bumper.
I was amazed as the truck and the car seemed to know what they were doing, like it happens all the time...

GCollier

I've driven through Belgium quite a few times, and agree with a lot of the criticisms made of Belgian drivers. In my continental driving experiences, they are second only to Italians for driving insanity. The biggest problems were a combination of tail-gating, and the simply insane speed at which they drove on soaking wet roads. My gf reckons part of the problem is that the driving test was only introduced relatively recently, and a lot of the older drivers never had to sit a test or undergo any instruction.

When driving through from Antwerp to Eindhoven, you certainly notice the change in the quality of the roadsurface when you cross the Dutch border. It's made out of the new hi-tech tarmac which is very very quiet, and lets water through, so there's no spray when raining. Pity about the b***** lorry drivers on speed limiters, who take, literally 10 minutes to overtake another lorry and form huge queues behind them.

PaulL

I heard that the Belgian police have started cracking down Tail-gating.

I also heard (although I've never seen it for myself) that the Belgian police sometimes operate a scheme known as (something like) "Block Driving".
Basically it's a bit like a mobile Variable Message Sign (or an F1 Safety Car!!)
The police car comes out in busy traffic and nobody's allowed to overtake, thus separating the traffic into smaller blocks.

Can anyone confirm/ridicule(!!) this?

Paul L
(off the sample the Belgian roads again in a few weeks, complete with our dog and his new passport!!)

EdwardH

Theo,

I am defeated.

Was visiting the in-laws in Brussels. Next time I'm driving over in the Scoob - to take to Germany for a thrash - do you know a good delimited motorway or has that avenue of pleasure being closed off as well?

But I have the day off today and its raining
-so I am off out to find an empty road in the countryside (well Essex) and fill the intercooler with water spray.

Ed

Ari Fernelius

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Gaffer:
<B>Added to this is the habit of the truckies blocking a 2 lane carriageway for 5 minutes because the overtakers speed limiter is set at 0.0001 mph faster than the other! Roll on Germany!
[/quote]

I agree, this one of the most irritating things that can happen on a motorway... although I have to mention, that a situation exactly like that gave me the lucky (and safe) chance to test the top speed of the PPP'd Scooby I got for a test drive (for one hour). The passing truck hadn't catched the truck it was about to pass in, say, 30 secs, so I slalomed my way between the two trucks (an a-hole thing, do not practice this in everyday life), and surprisingly the road was dead empty for the next mile, in the middle of the day. Sweeeeeet. The car seemed to go 150mph like on trails - and the road wasn't in _that_ good shape. I was already reaching for 6th gear... but had to hit brakes instead, since there was another car already visible a couple of hunderd yards ahead...

I'm waiting for my 555-BM MY00 4-door sedan arriving in 2 or 3 days. Couldn't sleep almost at all last night!

-Fernis

EvilBevel

Paul - Block driving does indeed exist, but as far as I know it's only used in summer when half of Belgium wants go spend a weekend at the Belgian coast. The Police then knows when traffic will be the worst. Works pretty well actually, as everybody is forced to drive the same constant speed (between 50 & 60 mph).

Theo

EvilBevel

Ed,

Don't know too many roads in Germany, but there are still a few good ones (Karlsruhe to Basel (Swiss) comes to mind). And if you're on the way from Belgium to the Ring there are a few stretches left as well.

Mind you: wen you see 120 km signs STICK to that speed. German police is quite sensitive to speeding where it isn't allowed.

Theo [and while in Belgium, you could always test your "nil gatso" theory ]

PaulL

Another Belgian story - this time from Antwerp.

I went to visit Antwerp with a few of my Belgian relatives - all piled into a single Belgian car. Near the middle of the City we found an grass verge next to the road where there were loads of cars parking free - so we joined them - Free parking - yippee!

When we returned to the car we noticed lots of cars had parking tickets. Thankfully ours didn't. Upon closer investigation it was ONLY the non-Belgian cars (mostly Dutch) that had been given tickets!!

European-Unity eh? Don't you just luv-em?

Paul L

[This message has been edited by PaulL (edited 29-02-2000).]