Steve Godson

Having read about the EVO VI GSR (like most people), I was curious to find out more.
Needless to say when Ralliart offered me a test drive (Last Saturday), I seized the opportunity. My findings were as follows :
1. INCREDIBLE brakes - made my MY97's look truly pathetic (not difficult I accept) - why can't Subaru fit Brembo 4pot's as standard (the extra cost would be well worth it); there was no fade whatsoever (and we tried, beleive me !!).
2. FANTASTIC gearchange - no free-play at all; the last time I tried a gear change like that was on a Caterham 7 (my MY97 has a quickshift, which is a joke in comparison)
3. As for the performance, well !!!!!!! enough said........

To sum up, I still love my Scooby, but if I could raise the extra cash, there would be an EVO sitting in my driveway, if the P1 / STI is even close to being as good, that must be one hell of a car.......

richards

Steve,

I bought an EVO6 for five months before my STi5 TypeR.

I thought it was PANTS compared to my scooby!

I think you'll find that you're comparing like with unlike.

Yes, the brakes are a little better, and the steering is sharper but the suspension is ROCK HARD and wears you out the 95% of the year that you're not on a smooth racing track.

But the thing that did it for me - it sounds like a hairdryer when you floor it, fast it might be but wimpy it does sound.

Other negatives:

1. Very bad fuel consumption however you drive it ~18 mpg
2. Could not get the back end to hang-out for long - would always pull itself back in!
3. Crap steering wheel
4. Didn't sound 'meaty' (had to say it again)

Get yourself a 2 door STi - you'll absolutely love it to bits! If you're going to Donnington this w/end - I'll drive you round in mine (I'm only spectating) and I'm sure you won't make the biggest mistake of you life and get an EVO-sick!

Just my (experienced) tuppence worth.

Rich.

CB

Steve,

If you've not tested the STI, then do so. IT will blow your mind. Not driven the P1 as Subaru UK declined my online request for a test drive despite my genuine intention to buy one.

Having tested a UK (tweaked) and WRX, when I drove the STI. Well, the fastest car I have ever been in and definately up there with the EVO.

Which would I have............STI. But Evo is a fine car.

CB

GCollier

I've driven an STi5-TypeR and ordered an Evo VI instead. It's a matter of personal preference, so treat what people say with a pinch of salt.

Of course if you buy an Evo, then I'm glad you've seen the light

Steve Godson

Interesting replies so far - I am keeping an open mind. I won't be buying an EVO for the forseeable future (financial reasons). I will stick with my MY97 UK car.
Ralliart did admit the fuel economy is not a strong point (as is insurance!!).
At least I can run my car at a sensible cost.....

chuckster

Steve,
Definitely the biggest difference I felt between my old MY97 and the MY99 prodrived I just changed up to was the brakes - had to peel myself off the windscreen the first time I used them in anger. I drove a STI typeR VI recently and that was the same in terms of braking - though the shorter gearing really makes for incredible acceleration too!
The Catalunya I had had a shorter gear throw - made it feel much tighter than a standard MY97, I'd recomend one for the pre MY98 cars as a cheap enhancement which makes the car feel much more sporty.
Cheers
Charles

richards

Gary,

You say you've driven the STi5 TypeR but you don't say the same about the EVO6. Well, have you? And for how long? Even an all day test drive will not tell you what you need to know about long term ownership.

This is my experience. I had the EVO6 for 5 months. I was completely flabbergasted with it for the first couple:

"just look at those wheels, the brembos, the flared arches, the rear wing"
"there's no car that'll touch this"
"you know, a computer steers the rear-end!"
"you won't believe the brakes!"
"can you believe that acceleration?"

Then the remaining months:

"hmm... there's something not quite right about this"
"I mean everyone else likes it... but I don't anymore"
"What? (180 miles) fill up again???"
"I hate this interior"
"I just want some air, I don't want to play with a gameboy!"
"Why does it sound like that Micra over there?"
"Wow... that scooby sounds like a REAL rally car"
"Wish I had a scooby..."

I've even heard from my local Car Hi-Fi dealer that ALL their EVO6 customers have now changed their cars to something else!

Yup, choosing a car is difficult with the amount of choice that we have nowadays and we could spend all say arguing either way.

At the end of the day just choose it for your own reasons and it's true to take all advice with a pinch of salt as it's almost certainly biased.

It's also very difficult to completely make your mind up by test driving so whatever you choose, use it as an experience.

You're not going to keep you car forever so choose whatever you want now and change it whenever you feel like it... (and can afford to)

Just get a performance car now as your reflexes will get progressively worse and we will probably have remotely-controlled-ECUs imposed on us in the near future.

Philosopher mode off!

Rich.

P.S.
(No offence on your choice of car Gary)

[This message has been edited by richards (edited 28-02-2000).]

[This message has been edited by richards (edited 28-02-2000).]

[This message has been edited by richards (edited 28-02-2000).]

GCollier

richards >>>

Yes, I have driven an Evo VI. I wasn't going to order one without a drive first, as you have to to get a P1!

Both test drives, Sti-5 and Evo VI were the typical extended style test drives you get at a dealership, ie. 30 to 60mins in length. The Sti's suspension is also noticeably harder than a UK spec car. There was a gap of a fair while between the test drives, so I can't remember exactly which car gave the harder ride, but it was probably the Evo.

I do like a hard ride in a car. The Evo will be a "fun" car for having a blast at the weekend. We have a nissan micra for the shopping run, and commute for work by train, so it'll only be doing about 6000-8000 miles a year max.

I agree with the other point you make about buying anc changing if you can afford it. If after an extended ownership period I find I don't like it, then I'll change it, maybe for a P1 if they're as good as people make out, maybe a second-hand 911 or 355 if I can afford it!

richards

Yup 355! - I STRONGLY AGREE!

That's my dream too!

Rich

GCollier

Yep, David Yu's 2 year old 355 Spyder, picked up for £50K in Evo magazine is sorely tempting. There's no way I could afford £80K for a RHD at the moment, but a LHD for this money is like that tempting piece of fruit which may just be within reach

GCollier

I forgot to mention in my first post. Sti-5s seem to lose up to £8-10K in depreciation in their first year.

Given the difference in price between a new Evo 6 and a year old STi-5, I believe the s/h Sti-5 certainly offers better value for money. I sometimes think that would have been a more sensible route to follow, and to put the money saved towards a 355, which is something _really_ special.

boltona

I had a MY98 (Terzo) for a year and I've had the Evo 6 for 7 months now. I certainly wouldn't go back to a UK Scooby. I have driven an STI. STI is pretty comparable with an Evo, but they both have different strengths and weaknesses. In both cases, the weaknesses can be counteracted with aftermarket solutions. Brembos/AP brakes for Scoobys for instance. I've put a custom Scoobysport exhaust on the Evo and it now sounds the business. You'll experience it if you come to Donington and stand on the pit wall . Leda 'C' has improved the around-town ride, and removed the understeer bias on the track (unless you want it that way). At the MIRA day in 2 weeks, I might experiment with removing the AYC fuse and seeing what happens .

A Scoob doesn't sound that special until you put an aftermarket backbox on it.

Steering wheel - what? I think it is at least as good as the Scooby one.
Gearchange - faultlessly superb, no Scoob I've driven can get close.
Interior - I really like the Recaro seats and the blue 'stipple' is good, but maybe not to everyone's taste.
Big fault is the small 50l fuel tank.
Looks are a very personal thing - I think the Evo is a much more purposeful looking car; it takes a 22B body to make the Scoob look as purposeful.
Each to his own, and I'm sure if I currently owned the Scoob, I'd defend it, but I haven't, so I'm not .

Andrew

ptholt

Before buying my current sti 5 4 door, i have driven sti 3 2 door, evo 5 and evo 6.

I was JUST about to purchase an evo 5 (got kicked in the knackers selling my Range Rover, so couldnt stretch to the 6 in the end).

But i fould the following observations made my mind up.

Both evo's were far to hard for everyday use, i have a family that i may need to take occasionally and didnt want to break my sons neck every time i hit a bump.

The evo's were not as easy to drive in traffic and thru towns.

Both Evo's 'felt' quicker (although the evo 5 had tuned hks stuff in there, and supposedly was putting out 325 bhp).

I couldnt get used to the way the evo's 'felt' when thrown around (probably down to the active yaw stuff, but after one test drive of 1 hour 30 and another over 45 mins i still couldnt get the hang of it).

I found the scooby much more compliant, easier to drive. Was less of a head turner and attracted less negative attention, plus there was the noise factor

The only reason i didnt buy the two door was the family concern.

Orville

They are both great cars. If I had the choice my next car would be an EVO - just to be different. The sad fact of the matter is that my girlfriend gets to choose our next car and it will be a poofy Beetle . The good thing is I get to keep the Scoob .

boltona,
"A Scoob doesn't sound that special until you put an aftermarket backbox on it." - Is there another standard 2litre car in the world that sounds better, I don't think so. A flat 4 will never sound as good as a boxer, especially when the boxer is modified also.

Nightmare

Orville - an Audi TT looks a bit like a beetle, and is rather nicer to drive (all things are relatives before I get lynched!) She might go for that

PEELY

Excuse me !
But does nobody think that a Subaru flat four sounds like..... well like it's MISSING to the general 'ear'?
Sorry but,.......
I'll get me coat then !!

Wreckleford

I would have to agree that a Scooby does sound better than an Evo, but I quite like the way my Evo sounds. Mine has got an aftermarket exhaust w/o cat and it certainly doesn't sound like a Micra. It's not too loud at idle, turns to a deep rumble at low speeds, when the turbo kicks in the whistle rises above the exhaust noise, but the exhaust noise very quickly overtakes the whistle as the exhaust volume begins increasing dramatically until at high revs it sounds like all hell has broken loose. A jet plane maybe?, only not as loud. On changing gear I get the blow-off valve hiss (stock blow-off valve, still routed to the intake), which sounds purposeful, not too loud and ridiculous like the finely-tuned-to-turn-heads Blitz and HKS valves. Then on the over-run it makes slight pop, pop , pop sounds. I guess it could be described by some as a Cacophony of sounds, but I really like it. There is no way a Micra could make so many intriguing sounds.

richards

Wreckleford,

Wow, your EVO 'sounds' truly interesting can you record a wav and post it's location on here? But possibly, the new EVO6s with the ever tightening demands of emissions and noise legislations only result in making them sound more like Micras than your EVO3?

Rich.

Wreckleford

I don't have a clue how I would go about recording a WAV file. Anyone care to help? I have some computer friends, maybe they can help. My car is actually a I, but the I,II and III are very similar. As I said my exhaust is an aftermarket (I bought it that way), so probably an Evo 1 with stock exhaust would sound pretty boring. Also I couldn't hear the blow-off valve before i put in the K&N (drop-in type)as the OEM filter is very thick and restrictive. It almost looks like carpet.

I really haven't taken note of the VIs, Vs etc. out here, to see how they sound with and without aftermarket exhausts. I will make a point to listen out from now on.

Beef

Er, Orville, isn't a flat-4 and a boxer one and the same?

Peely, listen to an Alfa 33 flat-4, and then you will know what is missing.

Ian Cook

I think he meant straight 4 compared to flat 4.

MarkO

MMmmm. My favourite subject. Oh, and there's a post from Mr. Bolton too, just to liven things up!

Let me take Andrew to task on a couple of points he made:

<I>both have different strengths and weaknesses. In both cases, the weaknesses can be counteracted with aftermarket solutions</I>. What a daft thing to say. A fiesta is crap compared to an Evo or STI, but I've read about after-market modded Fiestas which would kick the **** of either car over a quarter mile. Given enough money and mods I could probably build a skateboard faster/better than any other car in the world. Leda significantly improves the handling of both Evos and STIs, but then it would, wouldn't it? Otherwise it'd be a bit of a waste of £1,000....

<I>the MIRA day in 2 weeks, I might experiment with removing the AYC fuse and seeing what happens. </I> Why? The AYC was one of the reasons for buying the Evo, wasn't it? Surely if you want to get the back out, you should have bought an STI Type-R?

<I>A Scoob doesn't sound that special until you put an aftermarket backbox on it.</I>. True, but a standard Scoob (let alone STI) sounds loads better than a standard Evo. And I've heard your Evo - even with the straight-thru pipe and free-flow backbox the engine note still doesn't have a patch on the STI's standard sound. Put a Scoobysport backbox onto an STI and you're almost into TVR territory, so don't even <B>try</B> and claim the Evo sounds as good.

As for the reaction to the initial post in this topic, I've said it a thousand times on this BBS (try searching for 'Evo' and 'STI' and 'MarkO' and you'll see my previous responses): There's no point comparing a UK Scoob to an Evo or STI - they're just too different. It'd be like comparing a UK turbo to an Impreza Sport. As has (sensibly) been said several times already, they're both awesome cars and it's down to personal taste - drive both and decide which you like.


[This message has been edited by MarkO (edited 29-02-2000).]

Liam

I've had my EVO 6 for 8 months now and I can say that I definately prefer it to a Scooby.

For looks you would have to have the 22B for sure on comparison, but having had a 22B parked on the drive next to the EVO for the past few weeks I still prefer the EVO on looks. I have to admit though, I love driving the 22B. In fact I think I prefer it. No I'll change that, I most definately prefer it. It's just so much more involving to drive than the EVO. I just don't recommend driving quickly in the wet in it when you don't have the diff control hooked up to be able to adjust it.

The EVO is a great car but i've decided that it has to go. RWD for me now!

Oh and as for fuel consumption I average 120 miles to a tank and that's taking it easy!! The most I have ever managed is 158 miles and it was less than 1 litre off of being empty! If you do a lot of motorway driving you have to do 90mph to stop the needle dropping like it's doing a free-fall!

If I was to do it all over again I'd still buy the EVO before an STi, but may consider a 22B.

As for a 355, well enough said, it speaks for itself!

Blow Dog

Hmm,
One thing a lot of people are missing out on is the cost comparison. For a similar year and example, the Evo can cost upto 10k more. An STI 5 can be picked up now for less than 19k, you would be hard pushed to find an Evo VI for less than 26-27k.

One thing I would say about the evo though, they can do some great flame outs.
Cem

boltona

Oooh, he just wouldn't let it lie

First off, there is nothing wrong with aftermarket improvements. I'm not talking about adding a jet engine, just more compliant suspension. MarkO - you yourself frequently use the 'well-sorted Impreza with Leda and Brembos' argument in price discussions.
Scooby near TVR? Hmm, keep dreaming.
My point about AYC was that you could either buy an Evo RS, or remove the fuse. I would almost certainly never do it on the open road, but there is no reason not to try it in very controlled conditions (ie at MIRA), and seeing what it does. It's still a fun car, you just have to learn how to treat the AYC to get the most fun out of it (ie keep the loud pedal down round corners )
I've got over 200 miles on a tank on several occasions, although it is difficult.
Blow Dog, your price argument backfires. All it means is that the demand for Evo 6s is much higher than the demand for STI 5s. Mainly cos they know the STI 5 engine is likely to melt like a marshmallow in a bonfire

MarkO

Oi, Bolton, NO!

<B><I>Oooh, he just wouldn't let it lie</I></B> Of course I wouldn't.

<B><I>MarkO - you yourself frequently use the 'well-sorted Impreza with Leda and Brembos' argument in price discussions</B></I>. Yes. My usual argument is that you could buy yourself a Leda/Brembo equipped STI for less than the price of a standard Evo (especially a Ralliart one). And considering there's not much between the two cars when both are standard, the upgraded STI would always be better. But don't feel hard done-by - I'd use the same argument when claiming the P1 is overpriced...

<B><I>Scooby near TVR? Hmm, keep dreaming.</B></I> In the Dartford tunnel, with the windows down and the SS exhaust on full chat there's not much to choose between 'em. And besides, a scoob is a damn sight closer to sounding like a TVR than an Evo will ever be.....



[This message has been edited by MarkO (edited 29-02-2000).]

MorayMackenzie

...But an Evo does sound more like a sewing machine than a scooby ever will, so there!

Nightmare

MarkO - Im intrigued....consider that I will give you any amount of money you desire, after seeing a business plan for a skateboard which will out perform (and I'll make it easy) a....ummmm....McLaren F1.

plans on a postcard to....!!!

MorayMackenzie

...And so far, no-one has reported how a Scooby fitted with Racelogic traction control compares to an Evo with AYC...

No, I am serious. Honest.

Blow Dog

I think we have to agree that we are all loyal to our marquees. If I owned an Evo, then I am sure I would be saying that it is better than the Scooby. But I dont, so it isnt, so there.

Although I have to say, the Subaru note, with an after market exhaust, is the closest thing you will get to a TVR sound, bar a TVR.

If anyone would care to argue this fact, then I suggest you come out for a ride in either my '97 or Pat's STI II, which in my opinion is one of the fiercest sounding jap cars I have ever heard.

Cem