david

see post..

Ian Cook

Wish i could tell you the answers to this question, I speak to Jay regularly and knew this may happen, as i have thought the same thing myself recently.

chrisp

Hi Dave,

I try and take a lighthearted approach to posting on the BBS. Its a real shame when the guys with a lot of knowledge dont post because of the rubbish and battles which go on. Perhaps if we thought a little bit more before we post (including myself) then it reverts back to a BBS which is both fun and informative and one we can be proud of.

Personally I have gained a lot from reading technical posts and can pass on info I have learned.

The BBS can be like a forest fire sometimes and become, judge, jury and executioner.

Come on guys calm it down and take a minute to think before you post.

cheers

chrisp

[This message has been edited by chrisp (edited 29-02-2000).]

frisby

I think this is the general progression of a BBS......people join to learn from the existing knowledge base.......then they think they are 'experts' then they read 'Training WRX' and KNOW they are an 'expert'.....

Then new people join and the cycle starts again but the quality of the knowledge is diluted and before we know it everyone and his/her granny is an expert on BOV's lambda and MAF sensors, toe in, toe out, tuning a Possum etc etc

This is where the confusion and mis-interpretation beings and its time to don flames suits.......its at this point the true experts (we know who they are) bow out to the 'arm chair tuners' and as a result novices lose out.......

perhaps the SIDC web site could become more of an online database of products, faults etc but thats more work for someone which isn't fair as its all done with no contribution.....

laters

fris

Beef

We've been having similar probs on our mailing list recently. I think what may help would be if it was possible to change the topic title, establish some etiquette, and ENFORCE it. That's what John B has implemented on our list recently, and it seems (so far) to be working.

Is it poss to change subject titles admins?

Leon

I'm prety new to this BBS lark, but after reading various threads over the past couple of weeks, I have found it easy to work out who's talking sence and who's spouting waffling.
I've managed to get some reasonably comprehensive answers to some questions I've had.

If the knowledgable people stop posting their experiences and giving sensible advice, then it's the motor-phobes like me that loose out. Please leave it up to us to decide who knows what their talking about and who likes to think they know what they're talking about.

P.S. Apparently the middle pedal helps you slow down when approaching roundabouts and tight bends.

frisby

As to content/conduct when posting on the BBS, have a look at:-

Jonathan

Ive been on the board since it started and have to say I think that when it boils down to it this is all over one topic ECU's.

If you took ECU's out of the equation everyone would be pretty happy.

What about all the other posts made on here ?. Most of the time they are informative. You dont have to open a topic, your mouse button and index finger does that for you. What about all the meets, items sold, magazine articles etc. This board to my knowlege seems to do a pretty good job of getting Scooby owners together. For me it does add another dimension to ownership (helps me put up with the crap interior and stereo).

So IMHO without good supliers the board will be worse off, but with supliers able to post you will always get conflicting posts. Not one supplier is right all the time. BUT we are only talking about a couple of topics on the board. It still provides a very usefull information source. Not everyone wants to put a new ECU in. Infact 60% couldnt care less ? - warranty, enough power already.

Jonathan

PhilBennett

People do need to take care over what they say.

I started visiting this site because a mate of mine has a WRX and he said that this was the place to exchange views, etc.

I make my living two ways:-

1. Racing cars
2. Driver coaching

Following my recent fuel thread - which all started 'cos I shared the experience I'd had of WRX's.

Then because I'm an enthusiast and knew of a potential way to help I offered to fetch some fuel from Silverstone for this weekend (after all it's no use telling people after the event) - making 10p per litre (or £2.50 for a jerry can full) just to cover my travel expenses.

Now I'm a "Con man", I'm ripping people off, etc, etc. Crazy.

Why bother? People believe what it suits them to believe at the end of the day.

Ian Cook

Phil, I think you will find the thread discussing the fuel said, "doing it this way will give the impression you are a conman", it didnt actually say you were one.

Thats the problem with the BBS at the minute so many threads end up being way off topic after about 5 messages people lose interest in them. The PE ECU thread seems to have resurfaced again, why add to the orginal topic that is now a bit of a small nuclear war, when you could open a new thread say your piece and be done with it. I dont even bother reading threads that go onto more than 1 page now, they have got well boring by the time they need a second page.

If we enforce anything we get moaned at for censoring the BBS if we let it go we get moaned at for not stopping something, what do we do? Close all threads that have a commercial nature to them? that could be likened to cutting your nose off to spite your face, as some of the commercial representatives that post (or used to) on here have been a wealth of information.

Some have a way to aggressive attitiude to marketing, some just want to sell their product at the expense of others ! Some people cant even post in the write flippin forums Even the peopel that post carefully and try not to get too involved in the slanging matches get whinged about for something or other, usually on here before they have even considered speaking to the vendor concerned ?? Then when it gets sorted out, they dont say, oh by the way so and so at somewhere or other fixed my problem satisfactorily, they just ignore it and pretend it didnt happen, but by that time the damage has started, then a couple of other helpful souls pipe up oh yeah they were crap at this or that, then it gets stupid ! A little bit of common sense could stop most of the problems starting in the first place, but some people seem to lose any sight of that when something has gone a bit pear shaped ?

Rant over.

Please can we try to get our acts together, or not only will the chat be offline but so will the BBS ???? and i suppose some of you remember what happened last time that happened.

Thats not a threat BTW, just an observation.

BTW apologies for any spelling or grammatical errors

MarkO

R19CKET: Fair enough points. I wasn't actually accusing firefox of doing those things, although I see it did come across like that. The point I was trying to make was that I get really irritated with this attitude where people say "if people don't stop posting like X, Y and Z, then I'm leaving this list/bbs". If you don't like it, leave quietly. If you don't want to leave, put up with it. End of story.

And yes, you're right, firefox wasn't actually the one being egotistical, it was more the reaction of his fans ("oh, the BBS just won't be the same now firefox has left", etc). Fact is, no one person makes this BBS the community that it is. If all of the technical experts people and all of the suppliers stopped posting tomorrow, it'd still be a lively and informative place. The reaction to his leaving (this topic included) implied that it was like a punishment: "all 2000 members should change their behaviour or he won't be coming back", which is a bit daft.

But I apologise for giving the impression that these opinions came from firefox himself.

Mark

MarkO

IPro: Sorry, I just don't believe you. When has anyone ever come to blows at a meet after a BBS/email list topic got out of hand?

I've been to a lot of meets, and if anything they're the place at which the varying sides of the argument meet, talk and usually end up as good friends!

Adam M

Due to the country we live in, censorship of public forums is not an issue, and I think we should be grateful for that.

You cant expect poeple to hold back their two bobs worth, because people like to feel they have a contribution and that their opinion is right. The whole thing about freedom of speech is that you have a right to disagree with what others think and say.

This will always breed a fine line between what is acceptable and what isnt.

Phill Rick (was it?) the other day had some quite racist things to say to me and others and although I was offended, he has a right to voice his opinions, I just chose to think he was an idiot. In that situation I doubt he thought he was being constructive and thats why I wanted him out, but in the vast majority of disagreements on this bb people think they are being constructive and you cant censor that.

I am upset that J felt he could not deal with this. But he doesn't have to and made a choice that posting was a waste of his time.

The bbs has been greatly weakened by this, but my conclusion is that nothing can be done to change the nature of people. Nor should it.

Good luck J. If you are reading this.

Come back soon.



[This message has been edited by Adam M (edited 01-03-2000).]

DavidG

There have been a lot of new members recently. This is a positive thing, but perhaps some of those people don't yet have a feel for what's acceptable and what's not on this BBS, and maybe Webmaster needs to enforce that e.g. just by pointing out to people that their post is more appropriate on another section, or by changing the topic or in some cases by locking the thread. This doesn't need to be heavy-handed, unless the poster really gets out of hand like recently where they are locked out.

Free speech is good in the real world, but let's not forget that this is a <I>moderated</I> BBS and long may it stay that way. Moderation implies a level of control by the moderator and that's what we have and what we need. I think our Webmaster has it just about right. If you want to see the results of unmoderated free speech take a look at Usenet. It's almost a complete waste of time now.

I don't have much tech knoweldge but I try to contribute where I can (e.g. by pointing to other posts where something has already been discussed), as I try to put something back for the benefits that I have received of the views of others who are more knowledgeable. I'm guilty of flippant posts from time to time, but I try to keep it away from the "chat" level.

Don't forget also that apart from the chat room (if it ever goes back up), I-chat exists for the sole purpose of pub-type chat.

That's just my 2p worth .

lpro

marko

I've seen it, believe me. I could'nt believe it either. That's the way life is going. For all I know you could a homicidal maniac with a grudge for people who don't use Headcorn station.

All it takes is one person to wind the other up and bang, all hell breaks lose.

You Headcorn station boys are well know to lose their temper

Nightmare

Im impressed.....someone has managed to raise a topic about 'opinions and content' on the bbs, and everyone is arguing about it already

In general I totally agree with what MarkO said. Anyone who expects to get 100% info on a board with people called Firefox, Nightmare or whatever posting are being a little naive.

As i see it, the technical forums seem to be mostly staying that way, with a slight swing towards 'general chat' in the 'general questions' forum - which is what you'd expect as the bbs gets bigger. I cant remeber how many registered users there were when I first joined (about 6 - 800) but obviously the topics were a little more limited at that stage.

The manners of almost everyone on here are exemplary, and I think the admin and members stop other users being out of line.

I accept what DavidG has said about the problems of total free speech, and moderation, and think this could be a good idea - but it might be a little time consuming for Ian and John......

I still thoroughly enjoy the bbs. Im sorry J has left, but there are plenty of new people to take their place....

pwebb

seems people are getting a little over-sensitive all of a sudden...if you can't separate the useful content from the chaff then don't whinge about it.

IMHO 85% of the content on here comprises
bragging, subjective oppinionated drivel, dodgy advice, thinly disguised sales banter and postings by children (you may accuse me of submitting all but the latter 2 !)

However 15% is useful information and I, for one, am fully prepared to wade through the rubbish to get to what I am looking for.

After all, people do buy so-called 'newspapers' don't they?

cheers,

Paul W

btw - Mark O - I'm just as pompous/offensive in 'real-life' as I am on this BBS ;-)

Blow Dog

Marco.
Well said, I agree completely with everything you said. Firefox is a great guy, I'm sure, as is his immense knowledge of the Impreza Turbo (alledgedly), but why the big fuss?

Ipro,
Dont compare Scoobynet to football hooligan meets. In the many months I have used Scoobynet and in all the meets I have been to, there have never ever ever ever been ANY signs of animosity between any participant.

Cem

Stef

blubs

I'll put my two-pence worth in then.

Personally speaking, I think the board is fine as it is, bar a couple of exceptions.

Also personally, I'm not really interested in the technical side of the Scoob, other than slight mods which I wouldn't carry out myself. That is not to say I'm against the techy side of the board, because all walks of life should be encouraged to post constructively.

I agree with the sentiments that suggest people may be a little 'thin-skinned' when discussing differences of opinions. Lets face it, Mike Rainbird has posted some real 'time bombs' but does it in such a manner to make it fun and non personal, as are the replies to his threads, (and still he comes back for more!).

Before I ordered my Scoob I had no knowledge at all of the ins and outs and was thankful and appreciative that there were so many people willing to offer a different and constructive opinion.

Lets keep the thing alive and interesting as I for one would have to resort in the terrible scenario of 'working' for my crust. (And lets face it, that stinks).

blubs.

rsquire

Sadly, the US board seems to be going the same way

Now, while I'm not the most technical poster and I do enjoy a bit of fun. Lately I'm becoming more and more disenchanted with the mail lists and the BBS's. Maybe it's an overdose, maybe it's a case of more and more "new" people getting into Scoobies.

Richard

"Aaah Brooklands... The right crowd and no crowding"

robski

Yes this must be stopped.

Bring back J (firefox).

robski

PhilBennett

Hey I've got big shoulders and thanks for the appology GG.

I can see how Scoobie Newie's views may be judged with caution but people must be judged on merit. Otherwise the BBS will fail as no fresh ideas or thoughts will be shared. Because you feel you'll get hassled or slagged off unless you feel you are part of the inner clique.

I also get the impression that most people posting stuff like technology - to the point where if they have a box on the dashboard telling them stuff then that's cool. Hence the "hostility" and cynicism if you suggest something other than more electronic boxes.

Whatever. You can be sure that all the subjects that have been raised in the past will be raised again as new people join. Maybe it would be possible to get a FAQ section which lists all technical issues?

lpro

The only thing that p!sses me off is when a newbie post's to say his bought his first scoob from the UK(Joyous occasion). The immediate reply is "jeez you must be an idiot paying UK prices when you could have bought it from outer mongolia for 20 bahts".

When I first posted I had two replies I think, one was excellent "it's great to know there are scoobies driving around there when I'm stuck in this hellhole called work".The other I can't remember but it was someone being obnoxious.

The way it's going it'll end up like the footy forums(Arsenal Supporter) where you have the obnoxious people posting and all the people with different views from theirs are either frozen out or leave.

As far as I'm concerned, if there is a difference of opinion this should be taken off the forum and into there own domain(e-mail)

Rant mode off

MarkO

I have to agree with a lot of what's being said here, but I also think there's a case of over-reaction too. Seems that people are getting into the habit (both on the BBS and the IWOC list) of claiming that they don't like the content, and so will stomp off in a huff. It's a bit childish if you ask me. Sure, this whole BBS is a useful techical forum, but I don't see that it needs any regulation. I only get to 'catch' up on the content once or twice a day, and I only follow the Forum1 stuff (not enough time to cover all 15 forums!) but it seems that, with the exception of 'Phill Rick' incidents, the content is pretty sensible and most people are self-regulating.

I for one would prefer this BBS to stay in the 'pub talk' style where everyone can share their opinions and argue/discuss from their own corners. Like it or lump it, the world of driving, tuning and buying cars has very many opinions, most of which will be at odds with each other. But I'd much rather see them discussed (as in the fun 'Evo VI' topic) than just dull technical data posted. I mean, even cases like Anders and the 22B/PE Phase 1 saga were good (even if it was, perhaps, tackled in the wrong way) - it certainly brought the problem to peoples' attention.

I haven't read many of firefoxes posts, but despite his obvious technical talents it strikes me as a little egotistical to suggest that he's so important that his leaving will prompt 2,200 registered members to change their behaviour overnight. Okay, so sometimes the flames/arguments and so on do become a bit much, but there's plenty of room on here to just start a new topic (and nobody's being forced to read them anyway).

The web as a whole is a pretty strange place, where people behave very differently to real life. Alter-egos (such as 'firefox') are common, and allow us to take on a new - usually more confident - persona. The anonymity means that people can be 'braver' and say things they might not normally say, but I don't think that's such a bad thing. As far as I'm concerned there's nothing wrong with the current state of this BBS (and compared to other lists/bbs's I've been on it's actually bloody tame and very well moderated). If people get fed up with it then let 'em go and do something else. After all, firefox did say in his last post that he was really just taking a break from the BBS and would probably be back.

Perhaps people should spend less time complaining, throwing their toys out of the pram and storming off in a huff, and more time just having fun and sharing opinions and information.

Gethin

Well said MarkO. My views exactly. Freedom of speech is important. Life isn't simple and let's not regulate the BBS to conform to any strict viewpoint.

Geezer

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by lpro:
<B>

As far as I'm concerned, if there is a difference of opinion this should be taken off the forum and into there own domain(e-mail)

Rant mode off

[/quote]
What a load of rubbish! Virtually everything on here is a difference of opinion. If someones asks what tyres are best for a Scoob, there is no definitive answer, it's all subjective. If you want purely technical talk, go join the nerds bulletin board. People who contribute here have a life and a sense of humour, and a bit of banter helps the day go by. As Marko said, if you don't like a thread, don't read it!

lpro

Geezer

I've only been on this forum for the 4-5 months, and when things get heated, like they have been. It often ends up spilling over in the meets (fistycuffs).

I know this first hand as I been to several Arsenal list meets and have seen this happen. All it takes is one person calling the other a "£$$ so and so and your talkin out yer "£$£.

And don't give me the old blarney off footy supporters are all yobs etc etc.

If they take it off line it can usually be discussed in a sensible matter without someone else putting their oar in.

Dave Thornton

Geezer: "Virtually everything on here is a difference of opinion"

No it isn't!!! Somebody agreed with me about something only last week

R19KET

Mark O,

I think you are being GROSSLY UNFAIR to J (Firefox).

You accuse him of being "egotistical", and having an "alter-ego", when all he said was he was unhappy with the posting on the bbs, and didn't care to post anymore.

Where has he suggested that this will prompt 2000 + people to change their behavour ??.

No wonder he feels that way.

Mark.

[This message has been edited by R19KET (edited 01-03-2000).]