TARManiAC

This is a follow-up on my earlier threads about my MY01 with an unexplainable knockoing noise that was not cured by the installation of a new cambelt tensioner. A few facts about my car:
8125 miles, bought it October ī02 from new, first appearance of noise at about 1600 miles. Itīs a knocking noise that goes away when the engine is warm after 10 min. of driving. The noise is most recognizable from the cabin or if bonnet is opened and head stuck into engine compartment (comes from middle of engine). Only audible with low revs (under 1500 rpm).

Yesterday I went to my dealer because my car stayed overnight to have the noise listened to by an "expert" from Subaru. He started with the announcement that this was a turbo engine and they (turbo engines in general) were all prone to funny noises. When I told him that I just owned another turbo engined car of another make which didnīt make this noise he tried to pull this one on me:"since a boxer engine has such a big area they will make more noises."?? I showed him a print out I had done from Scoobynet where Pete Croney suggests how to diagnose piston slap. The Subaru guy was not interested. He also stated that all threads on Scoobynet about turbo cars getting new pistons/blocks was not true. Just people maknig things up. He would only admit problems with the smaller non turbo engines. He also said that if Subaru Japan is approached with a statement about engine noise MY01 and onwards, the reply is to change the tensioner and that they know of no such problems as piston slap on the new models.

My real worry is that I want more power from my engine but I seem to be trapped with this noise.

What next?

Gedi

Try taking it to a real expert for a check. Forget the Subaru dealer. If they can find a problem you can go back to the Subaru dealers better armed.

stavros

.......pistoooon

555-Shaggy

Heavens door.. Knock knock knocking on...

Sorry, couldn't resist.

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

Bob Dylan or the Guns 'N Roses version?
Back to the subject - I was talking to my local Subaru service manager about the piston slap issue and he said "It happens on the later models too"
I have some experience of owning slappers of various makes, and believe me, manufacturers go to lengths to minimise audible slap in their products.
My sons STi7 uk has slight slap as the engine is loaded slightly when cold. Most people would not detect this (just as well!)
"As a boxer engine has such a large area" --- I can see what he is getting at, plus the alloy block lets sound through.
JohnD

[Edited by JohnD - 3/14/2003 1:55:29 PM]

[Edited by JohnD - 3/14/2003 1:59:42 PM]

johnfelstead

100% not true, i have seen with my own eyes plenty of engines in main dealers service departments having their short motors replaced due to piston slap.

The oficial FHI fix was new short motor for all turbo engines with slap, new oversized, ceramic coated piston for non turbo models.

When my sport developed turbo slap, i insisted on a new short motor, which they installed.

TARManiAC

Thanks all for the help.

So what can be done about this problem. Why is FHI willing to sort out the classics with slap but not the new models? (Everybody sing:
money money money).

JohnD
What is going to happen to your sons Sti7? Are you sure it is not the tensioner? will he just live with it?

Scooby Dooby Blue

TAR

You had me concerned my noise may have been a piston but fortunately (for me), it was the guide on the tensioner that had moved, causing the belt to flap/wear. Being sorted under warranty on Monday

I hope you get some satisfaction with your motor mate...good luck!

Paul

shady2

Just wondered, what happens if you leave piston slap on a newer car as obviously a couple of the cars on this thread are very new. My 03 wrx sounds exactly as described by JohnD i.e slight knock when cold under 1500 revs and its only done 300 miles.

Apple

shady

not saying yea or ne to you having piston slap but when an engine's stone cold, things haven't got to running temperature and hence pistons are "loose" in the bores (aluminium has a higher coefficient of expansion than steel so they are made smaller as they'll "grow" more coming up to temperature)

yes, b4 you say about the rings touching all the time - the piston skirts are the bits that create the slapping sound AFAIR

Apple

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

The slap on my sons STi is minimal and not always noticable and to be honest nothing more than I would expect from ultra short skirt forged pistons.
A couple of years ago I posted my experiences on slap and a few facts that may (or may not) be of interest to anyone. If I thought you wouldn't fall asleep half way through I could try to recall what I wrote? Although I am not an automotive engineer (ex mech./production engineer) I have picked up a few clues in forty odd years of enthusiastic car ownership.
JohnD

shady2

Many Thanks Apple & JohnD.

I'm similar to you john in that i'm just an enthusiast who just wants to enjoy my car at it's best. But as this is my first Subaru i was just a little concerned to find after buying my first new car that it knocked from cold, Therefore if you can remember anything from your previous thread i would be more than interested.

P.S if you had to pay to put this problem right what would it cost?.

TARManiAC

First of all: Shady you shouldnīt pay anything at all. Your car is new so go to the dealer and tell him bout it. Maybe your cars problem is easily fixed with a new cambelt tensioner.

If not, come back here and then I think we soon will have to do something about it. Itīs not fair that Subaru/FHI denies all piston slap problems with the newer models when they fixed the problems with the old ones. I heard somebody mentioning a slap club? I think i was danny-boy. Can anyone confirm this?

Secondly: Okay, so the pistons are made of some special material (aluminium) and have short skirts. My wife has short skirts too but she doesenīt make that kind of noise.
No, what I mean is that most other cars donīt make this noise. (Maybe they make other noises but thatīs not the issue here).
The problem is, as Shady mentions, what will happen during a period (years/lots of miles) of time?

I asked the "expert" from the importer. You know what he replyed?
"mmmmm... yes maybe, but in two and a half year your warranty is out" (meaning that by then it would no longer be Subarus problem)
FU....G NICE CHAP.

stavros

on your wallet's dooooooor.....

-=Buzz=-

you mean shes not a slapper?

LOL! Quality

shady2

Thanks Tarmaniac.

My noise seems to be exactly the same as yours i.e slight knock when cold at around 1500 rpm. What i have noticed though is the noise is not there on initial start up it only appears after about 20 secs. i also wondered if it was the timing belt tensioner would the noise go away when warm as i've just noticed very small bits of rubber in the engine bay.

P.S The reason i'm perhaps a bit concerned with a new car is that mine is a EU import so even though it has a 3 year warranty i just hope it gets sorted.

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

I'll put something together and post it as a new thread sometime during the week.
The comment I made about my sons car is irrelevant now - It was written off today by an 80 yr. old woman who overtook a car that was stationary in the middle of the road waiting to turn right! A very nasty head on smash. Chris is ok but they had to cut both people out of the other car. A phone call from the police (who incidently were excellent) this evening revealed that they are considering bringing charges against the woman. I think a better action would be to offer her the chance of surrendering her driving licence?
JohnD

shady2

Took my car into the dealers yesterday so they could listen to noise after it had been standing all night. I there when they started it up this morning and the technician said that until warm they all make the noise i described, he also showed me a car awaiting collection and this made the same noise apparantly as johnD stated it's until the aluminium pistons get to temperature.

TARManiAC

Shady2

Thatīs exately what the technician told me too. And they also told me that they could start up every other Impreza in the dealership and they would all make that noise. Seems like there is a coordinated line in the answers to customers. Remember that Iīm in Belgium. Wonder what they say in other countries? Anyone?
But it seems to be the good old "they all do that sir". Yeah right.
Maybe all Imprezas sound like this. But it is not normal for a new engine to speak like this and we should NOT tolerate this. Iīve heard of cylinders becoming oval from piston slap and this would lead to serious problems like early engine overhaul. Maybe not a problem for the first two owners of the car but what about us doing a lot of mileage in very short time or like in my case I will be keeping the car for many years because Iīll be bringing it back to Denmark where I come from and here cars are REALLY expensive. Iīll have to pay something like 18k in registration tax if I want to drive on Danish roads. Oh yes, this is certainly on top of what I already paid for the car in Belgium. So I wonīt take "they all do that sir" for an answer.

So what was the outcome of your meeting with the technician? are they going to at least change the cambelt tensioner?

Claus

shady2

Claus,

My dealer said it was not the cambelt tensioner as this is at the front on right hand side of the engine and the noise was not coming from there, he also stated as mine was still on the thinner running in oil it would be noisier than normal.

TARManiAC

Shady2

Iīm sorry to hear your dealer says itīs not the tensioner. Because itīs exately what happened in my case too. What your dealer actually says is that the noise will go away when the oil is changed when the car is fully run in. Well the noise from my car didnīt go away with thicker oil. My car is now running on Castrol RS 10w/60 and the noise is exately the same as before. Ask him what he will do if it does not get better, or even gets worse, and the answer will be:"They all do that sir". Sad but true. At the moment Iīm awaiting an answer from the importer what they say about my car in japan. But I already know. They will have no knowledge of the new models with pistonslap and "They all......