I have been notified today that Grampian Police wish to take me to court for speeding.

I was doing 93MPH on (What I think is a 60, anybody know any different??)the A93 INVERURIE TO HUNTLY ROAD, NEAR BROOMHILL.

Take heed, these cameras are active! Has anyone been in a similar situation, what do I stand to lose??

Looks like a day out spectating on the Granite City turned out more expensive than anticipated!!

Any advice much appreciated!!

Richie

 

well my advice for what it is worth is to say to the beak that you had a really really upset stomach and you where in desparation trying to get to a toilet
you may laugh but it worked for alex ferguson !!!!!!!

 

Suggest you plead guilty and dont waste money with a solicitor as it makes little difference. Say your sorry for the offence (I mean as if!)etc, etc and it was a temporary lapse in concentration, and after all you though it was a 70 zone, and of course you dont recall going over 85 mph! at any time!

If you have a few points and are going to be done on totting up as well, I suggest you say that you'll lose your job if they ban you - they have to take it into account - especially if you write a letter on firms headed paper and get a mate to sign it!

33 over the speed limit does not necessarily mean instant ban - they will take all the circumstances into account - road conditions/time, etc.

Also they generally read out the first thing you say to Officer Scumbag when they stop you - so be careful (not relevant in your case though!)

If it is a first offence I reckon you'll get a possible 2/4 week ban if your unlucky and about a £300 fine + court costs, depending on whether you were truthful about your income - lets face it they dont have time to check so I suggest you halve your actual net disposable income - as they never check and dont have time to anyway!

I presume they sent you a Notice of intended prosecution within 14 days of the offence - if not they can't do you - and you should see a solicitor and get off on a law technicality

Good luck

 

Thanks for that Steve. Thats prob what I expected.

Yes this is my first offense and am not bothering with a solicitor, I dont want an extra £200 or so on top of the fine.

And yes I got the notice within 9 days.....bum!

Has anyone any experience of Insurance increases??

Thanks again, Richie

 

Richie

It's worth checking their evidence. Ask for copies of their photos etc. Ask for calibration details. You are looking at a ban + fine. Insurance increase could be about £200-£300 pa.

Do not bother with a solicitor, I see you already know that. BUT do NOT say anything about the speed especially not you can't recall over 85 etc etc. The offence is "Exceeding 60mph" it is not "Driving at 93mph". You therefore have no legal defence - you instead have mitigating circumstances & you should know what this means. There are no reasonable mitigating circumstances that you can use, only that you are sorry, won't happen again, sorry for wasting courts/police officers time etc.

You slight hope is the police may have no evidence & they'll drop the charge to a fixed penalty on receipt of your letter (I mentioned this earlier). It happened to me! 87mph in a 40mph - I questioned the evidence & the charge was dropped to a fixed penalty.

 

Thanks for that Nick.

Please could you elaborate on this Letter option. You were 47 over the limit and got a fixed penalty, how??

What is reduired from me?

All I know is that the police claim to have photo evidence.

Cheers M8

Richie

PS If I do get stung for an extra 200-300 quid, there'll be a cracking 93 WRX for sale here.................
I perish the thought............

[This message has been edited by RichieC (edited 17-04-2000).]

 

Nick - cant agree with you unless your a solicitor specialising in road traffic offences - having been in front of Magistrates more times than I can remember I reckon I know a few things - but never learn!

If it is a first time offence I dont see that you are looking at a ban! - I got caught doing 126 mph on the motorway with 9 points on my license - I DID NOT GET BANNED - after pleading loss of job - got 6 points and £800 fine

I have had a number of incidents since then - lost count of bans/points tally. My insurance is 21% or £225 higher as a result

Calibration on a gatso? - unlikely to be wrong I would say. Good comment about questioning the evidence though!

So your exceeding 60 offence - hardly as they take the 93 into account and do you for that - if only you were doing about 80 you'd have got away with a fixed penalty - nevermind

 

The beaty of retrospect....****!

I always slow down without fail but never saw this as it was a mobile one below the level of the road....money making exercise or what, not a deterrent in my eyes.

Cheers again

R

 

Does anyone know whether you can be banned _in your absence_ in a court.

I _think_ that if it is likely that you will receive a disqualification, you *must* attend court, rather than simply pleading guilty on the tear-off strip. I would have thought that the summons would give an indication of the severity of your "crime" if you were just a little too fast.

So fingers crossed, you may just get a "please send licence for stamping and a signed cheque" letter.

mb

 

A mobile gatso must be calibrated, this is what got me at 87mph in a 40 zone. They will have pics, which may be blurred/obstructed, they may have forgot to calibrate the machine that morning. I wrote a letter to the Chief Constable at the same office that the NIP came from. I asked for calibration details, the training details of the oficers involved, exact location & copies of the pictures. They wrote back, giving me none of the info I asked for, but enclosed a fixed penalty notice. I am certain that the evidence was bogus in some way. If I had a high powered expensive solicitor, I think I'd have got the offence wiped off.

In my letter I also stated that I am always a careful & considerate driver & I cannot beleive that I would have exceeded the speed limit.

If it was a mini Gatso, I assume that you saw the flash?

 

Hi guys,

I'm always sorry to read that, i live in France (keep cool i'm not french but belgian)

You have to know that here, the first time they catch you with 30mph over the limit, you can get up to £2500 to pay and you can lose your license up to 1 year and you can lose your car up to 1 year (yes, they keep your scooby)

The worst thing is coming, if you go again 30mph over the limit during the year after the firstly caught you. You have to pay £5000 and this time you can go to JAIL up to 3 months!!!

So guys, take care when you'll come to this bloody country!!!

 

Blimey.......

I hope John Prescott does'nt read this board, he'd jump on that one at a stroke....

Remind me never to go France again....

 

I recently heard about a woman in Scotland who claimed her right to withhold information as to the identity of the driver. - On grounds of human rights violation - she didn't have to disclose on the grounds that it might incriminate someone! No less.
This was apparently written up in the Times or the Telegraph some months back and as I recall it is going to the European Court in July.
Perhaps it is also possible that someone else was driving her car. Morover, even if they were a foreign national presumably she claims their rights are being upheld by her actions (or rather her reactions). This despite the fact that she may know that British courts have no power to prosecute in the foreign country of the driver.
Take legal advice and go for it.
I for one think that the latest round of anti-motorist is over the top, we have gone from road safety to revenue generation.

 

Richie, re the insurance query - premiums will increase at renewal. They shouldn't increase before then - it would be beneficial to advise your ins company once you know the conviction/fine/date etc...

 

Cheers again Nick, I have found out today that all I have been given is a Notification of Intent to Prosecute, not a summons. They have even mentioned that a fixed penalty may be offered. If this is the case, I will plead guilty by post.

So Boomer, I havent even been given the tear off strip yet, just a form to ask if I was driving and still own the car.
Will requsting the proof not antagonise the police? I know its my right but I dont want to make things worse!!

Thanks everyone for the help,

Richie

[This message has been edited by RichieC (edited 18-04-2000).]

 

No, ask for proof now. An innocent person would be incredulous & angry about receiving an NIP. Make yourself an awkward customer.

 

Yeah but Im not innocent nor do I intend to plea that way, I want to avoid stirring things up.

Rich

 

Boomer - as I recall they cannot ban you in your absence - you have to attend - I got into correspondence about 3 years ago just on this matter - I said I did not want to attend - they said I should attend - so I said no, I'm not attending - they said that I has to attend, as the court could not ban me in my absence

It was quite funny as I had another court summons at another place in the country on excatly the same date - they did not belive this and issued a Summons for my arrest! - idiots

mprocureur

As I'm sure everyone knows in the UK, if you have a ban on your license and go up in front of the Magistrates within a 3 year period you can get an automatic ban of 1 year, just as if you have 2 bans on the license you can get 2 years.

This is automatic for someone done on totting up, and then done on totting up again, and again! - you learn the hard way - well at least I saved a fair bit of money - apart from an average court fine of £100 a month over a 3/4 year period!

 

If I was in your position. I would send a letter denying all knowledge of the offence. The police just dont have the manpower to follow these (minor) enquiries up. If it looks like they will and a court summons arrives then do as has been suggested and ask for full details of the offence and calibration details including the training for the officers.Is called disclosure and its your legal right. There is a 6 month cut off for traffic matters and they cant summons you to court over this time. If you eventually get to court you stil have the option of pleading GUILTY and none of the above can be brought up and hence yo give your mitigation.

good luck

K

 

mprocureur

The best thing about France is that they are much more relaxed.

On the way to Bol D'Or was severely, big time exceeding speed limit on my bike. Only slowed when saw 4x Gendarme in a Peugot Estate (yes!) doing 110mph (thats MPH not KPH). Thought unwise to overtake for 4 miles, then thought nuts & blasted past. They didn't bat an eyelid.

Cool Country

Richie

Sorry no help to you but good luck!

 

Nick,

The part of my post that shows the fines came from The Speedtrap Bible. Judges have certain guidelines that they use which may be what Chris Longhurst shows on his site. However, I expect judges also have some leeway to increase the penalties (every offence has a maximum penalty which, in the case of many motoring offences, also includes imprisonment!) depending on the circumstances of the offence. I'd tend to agree with David that this is probably what happened in your case.

All the best,
Brian

 

JamesH,

In fact, the police close their eyes when they see bikers, because bikers association in France are very powerful i think.

That's why you will only see car drivers stopped by a police speed control while bikers will continue their way.....

That's life....

Mike
Happy scooby driver and happy R1 rider...

 

Richie,

This reply is a bit long, so make yourself a cup of coffee, make yourself comfortable and, when you're ready, begin ....

You are well within your rights to write and ask what evidence the police have against you. Why plead guilty to an offence if they have no evidence? They must supply you with such and it does not prejudice your case, nor affect your rights. If they've got a clear picture of your car in the frame, you then have a choice:

- If you're offered a fixed penalty (which is unlikely, but see below for what that's likely to be), you can plead guilty, pay your dues and put it down to experience.
- If you're told that the offence is being dealt with by a court, you may have the option to plead guilty by letter. You'll then be dealt pretty much according to the scale penalties below. If your presence is demanded in court, then they have it in mind to ban you, so get a lawyer.
- You could plead not guilty, but don't try this without legal help - get a lawyer.
- As one of the previous replies mentioned, you could plead not guilty by counter-plea on the basis that, under the European Convention on Human Rights which was incorporated into Scots Law at the time of devolution, you can't be made to incriminate yourself. This has been tested in Scotland and the alleged defendant won her case (it wasn't a speeding charge, but the essence of the case is the same). There is an offence along the lines of "not providing the name of the driver at the time of the alleged offence", but the police can't act illegally by insisting that you incriminate yourself. If you choose this route, you will win your case (and it'll make the papers), but take legal advice now to work out whether you can cope with the hassle and the initial cost.

The following comes from Chris Longhurst's excellent web site - The Speedtrap Bible - at

 

HunterB

I'd disagree with some of the information on fines etc if 36+ mph in excess of the speed limit.

I was 41mph over the limit and got 6 points and a £1000 fine. My (previously) clean licence was the only thing which kept me from a ban.

Nick

 

NickF: Looks like they upped the fine in your case to make up for not banning you.

 

Thanks again people, some top info there.

Looks like Ill go with your suggestions Hunter.

Richie.

 

shall add my tuppence worth seeing as I can

1) Agree with Nick - ask for evidence now. Do not wait. This will not count against you in court, as the police do not present the evidence.
2) DO NOT bother with a lawyer at all. They are expensive and make it look like you're trying to cover your guilt with money - it will definitely increase your fine if you have a lawyer there
3) While Dons case is good (self incrimination), I wouldnt want to test it in a situation like this, seeing as I think a ban is unlikely for a first offense. Hunter - you are NEVER guaranteed to win anything....

I am not proud to have gone to court for an 82 in a 40, and a 73 in exactly the same place the following day. This was a mobile gatso. First offenses. 12 points and £550 fine altogether - no ban. I didnt have a lawyer and pleaded guilty, was very apologetic, and claimed would lose job. I also showed I had expected I might get banned and investigated being able to get to work without a car and that it wasnt feasable. In theory the magistrates were NOT allowed to not ban me, but did anyway..... I still feel I should have questioned the evideence, as when I got to court there were a)no police, and b) no pictures - so for all I know there was no evidence at all.....

cheers
Night

 

Well this thread has arrived just in time. I was stopped last night (by an unmarked) and given a '3 pointer + fine'. The cop car's Vascar (??) said I was doing 93mph on the M1 just above the M62.

When they showed me the in car video, they pointed to a few numbers and it did indeed say 93mph. I said I didn't realised I was going this fast - whereupon he started going on about 'do I not have a speedometer'. I said I felt I was driving well within the conditions (ie, empty road, clear, dry, etc).

Anyway, my point is that I'm not seen passing the police car and then all that is seen on the screen is my car in the distance, which occasionally gets obscured by other vehicles between myself and the cop car.

When I questioned this, I was told that the in car screen is small and that when the video is blown up you'd be able to see the evidence more clearly.

Chances are I'll just pay up, I feel lucky that I was only given a 3-point fine. All that saved me was that I was driving safely, indicating properly, etc. In fact when I said this, the copper said he didn't dispute that at all.

Now when I think about it - I'm annoyed that I can still get fined for driving safely

Regards
James

 

Sorry can't offer any legal opinion. I suppose no two cases will be the same.

I totally agree with James and others who have posted to the effect that 90 odd on an empty motorway should be perfectly acceptable. Why are we paying presumably healthy burly police men to follow people around driving safely in cars? Shouldn't they be looking for ones which have been nicked and people driving like clowns, even if they are doing it slowly?

Oooh, I could crush a grape.

 

Unlucky, James. You've been nicked and fined for a purely technical offence - driving at a speed above the posted limit.

Regarding their evidence, though, if your car can't be identified from their video, I can't see how they can prove that they stopped the correct car. It may be academic, of course, if you've already accepted and agreed with them that it was you in the frame.

Contesting a 3-pointer takes time and a bit of money, with no guarantee of success and a real possibility of annoying a judge to the point that he'd increase the penalty. As I said in my previous post, the system is designed to deal with such offences quickly and, for the police, cheaply. They expect you to pay up and shut up. In your position, I expect that's what I would do.

All the best,
Brian