hades

BMWs aren't that bullet proof - an abused/under serviced one will break, same as any other abused/under serviced 50k mile performance car - I agree with all the other comments about history being key.

IIRC, BMW aren't right at the top of the reliability surveys either, whereas the UK model Subarus have tended to figure quite highly . . . (Admittedly, Jap imports such as STis won't be in those figures)

Again IIRC, I have also heard more than one story about people having very expensive VANOS system failures on some of the M3s at around that age? I guess someone with more direct knowledge/experience may come along sooner

Edit to add - the Minis aren't all well put together either in my experience. It would take a very long message to list all the failures my brother's cooper had before he finally got rid of it, and BMW UK didn't appear to care at all, and I know of others.

[Edited by hades - 9/7/2003 11:24:27 PM]

Scooby mart

I am hoping some of the more knoledgable people will be able to give me some advice.

I am buying a car at the moment and had a brief of:
has to be fast
has to be reliable
has to be comfy (air con etc)
has to be a nice car
Turbo charged would be nice

Basicallt the list was:
scooby / skyline / honda civic type r/BMW E36 M3

I decided on the scooby but from the research I have done gives me a fear of engine reliability. I do drive on the motorway quite often and would like to drive a hundred or so miles at a speed range of 80 - 110 mph (not over 100 very often mind)

Which car would be more suitable out of the following of reliability is high on the list of requirments

Subaru STI V4 - 50000 miles
Skyline R33 GTR - 65000 miles
M3 Evo - 50000 miles

Any info and advice would be appreciated.

Cheers

Martin

taffyterzo

A well maintained car is the most important thing, every car is different but obviously the bm will be more reliable, take each car on their own merits!

ScoobyDoo555

If you're looking at Stis etc, why aren't you looking at the Evo....

Just a thought..

Dan

dragonoir

definately the skyline its a staight six so sounds nice to drive lpus it has larger displacement so more tuning potential ,you can get 400bhp easily.The others are two litres so less big power potential unless you have loads to spend.Also the skyline is worth more money

mynickers

BMW are bullet proof, M engines will never fail to impress, seriving will cost an arm and a leg though, it is rear wheel drive too, the jap car’s (excluding the Type R) are AWD with clever diff. systems, RWD is loads of fun, but they can be a handful if the rear gets loose on public roads. Civic on the other hand is front wheel drive, so it worth thinking about what kind of driving you’re going to be doing, and how demanding a drive you want. I have driven a Type R before, they’re very, very rapid but you have to keep the revs right up to get it in the VTEC, its very noisy and frantic in the VTEC zone though, ultimately a lot of fun. Honda’s are renowned for their reliability and build quality, they’re nice inside, the seats are wicked! Gear stick is on dash which makes for very quick gear changes. They releasing revised model in 2004, which looks good, but that will probably make current ones a bit cheaper.

Skylines are pretty mental machines for sure, but I reckon there is too much high tech gismology in them, I’d prefer a scoob over a skyline!

Have you thought about an Integra type R? Evo rate it as one of the best driver’s car they know, front wheel drive, but perfectly balanced and over steers like a RWD. Also very rapid, but maybe a bit stripped out and raw for your needs, certainly worth a look though.

If you’re considering front wheel drives have you thought of Cooper S? There are works 200bhp version you can get done and still keep BMW warranty, but they’re pretty good as standard, and they’re very well put together, it’s a BMW after all. Also have a look at Seat Cupra R, have also driven both of these, both very capable cars! Leon was a very unexpected charger. Wheel spun in every gear (except 5 and 6) even when I wasn’t trying. 210bhp Audi TT turbo charged engine, very rapid, and sounds meaty too. Nice big set of alloys standard with **** off brakes, plus like the Scoob it’s a four door, which comfortably fits 4 and has boot space. Now VW are involved they’re suppose to be very well put together and reliable, although you may have a problem with depreciation if you buy new.

If you’re going the second hand route as taffyterzo says, maintenance is the key, especially if cars have been ragged, which is highly likely all the cars on your shopping list will have been. So make sure they’ve got full service history, do your homework on each model work out what mileage they were suppose to be serviced and check they got the service done, ask for receipts for work, and ultimately I would get the AA to check it before handing over the cash unless you know someone that knows their stuff that you can take a long!

mynickers

Interesting to hear that about the cooper, all the reviews / tests I have read have always gone on about the built quality and reliablity, also very interesting to hear that BMW not dealing with problems properly!

I was gonna mention about scoobs being reliable, but thought I would leave it to you lot to sell that, as I don't really know first hand. Although ALOT of scoobies have been modded and ragged which always slightly worries me about picking up a second hand one!

Gary C

I believe the Mtech engines had a problem with bore wear with the nicasil (probably spelt wrong) liners at about 70-80k
A fairly bomb proof engine but they start to burn a bit of oil.

The EVO has a very bomb proof engine/gearbox (its the basis for the grp A engine/box), but the AYC rear dif is a weak point in the GSR cars (not fitted to RS models) if not serviced properly.

Hope the scooby is going to be perfect !

AndyBrew

I know 3 people who have managed to blow their M3's

1 chaps has had 2 new engines on warranty one after only 800 miles something to do with a rumbling sound!!

Chicken Man

You want reliability and preferably a turbo?

One or the other mate, you can't have both.

If you want something fast, you need either a scoob or skyline - from your list of choices.

If you want something reliable, you need an M3.

Any turbo car you buy will be slower in the summer and give you 'turbo paranoia' which every single person on here will have experienced at one time or another.

The more you tune and mod your turbo'd car, the more you suffer from 'turbo paranoia' until you get to the John Felstead stage where you have more gauges than you know what to do with, and spend more time looking at them than the road!

Been there done that, time to move on.

Just bought a BMW to replace my scoob, its the first car I've owned since a few turbo'd cars.

So far its the best move I've made as far as reliability goes.

And the cars worth 8 grand more and the insurance is 400 quid cheaper too!

Scooby mart

Thanks for the info - hopefully it won't stop here.

basically I would really like a scoob, they are wicked. If I did buy one, then as I say it would be a jap sti type R and would probably be a version 4.

If I bought one it would preferably be standard (maybe exhaust) - the one I am looking at, at the moment has just had the engine rebuilt so i would run it in properly etc. Also, the first and last mods (for a year atleast) I would make would be a knocklink, and a load of gauges (I was thinking AFR / volts / boost / oil temp and pressure).

Other things that tempt me are an oil cooler and an uprated oil pump and possibly an uprated fuel pump if I have any money left.....

Then if the engine is knocking etc, I would get it unichipped to cope with optimax.

If I stick to this route (especially with the rebuilt engine) - providing the oil gets changed every 2 or 3K miles, and the car gets serviced every six months - then would you say that providing I am not constantly going over 110 / 120ish and staying there for a few minutes at a time, the car is more than likely to be ok?

carrot-sti

I have an STi version 1, and recently went to the South of France in it - motorway most of the way.

I was cruising at between 100-120 mph for over an hour at a time.

No probs!

Scooby mart

carrot sti - thats good to hear.

With regards to buying a cooper s with work pack - out of my price range I think (about £13K).
The seat - was also on the list - but its a seat. Not a badge snob, but I would really like a jap 'supercar'
The honda - you have to rev the nuts off it - which i love but the girlfrind doesnt like the high revs - so buy a turbo and you can fly wihtout the 6K howl that gets her screaming....

Would be more interested in more info on the M3 and the skyline. Or more info on people who have Sti (upto version 6 I guess and what reliability they have had).

cheers for the feedback

martin

mynickers

I know what you mean about the seat, I was the same, but like I said, you might be surprised when you get in it. Looks and feels like a VW, and it really is a lot of fun to drive with very little turbo lag.

But I would prefer a Scooby from all the above.

Also if you want a posh badge, Porkers are generally incredibily reliable. You could get a Porker 968 club sport for that cash, just found one on Autotrader for just over £13k - fabulous drivers car / track day car. But remember the higher marque you go for the higher the servicing, Beemers and Porkers will cost quite a bit to get serviced!

Adam M

mynickers,

type rs are 4wd too!

and normal imprezas do not have clever diffs.

and the new bmw m3 had major engine failure problems when they first introduced it as they ahve taken it to the limit of its tuning envelope.

mikeDaBike

I had two beemers (e36 325i & e34 535i sport) before owning Subarus (my97 Sport and current my01 wrx) and I had to spend much more on them than on the scoobys.

I like BMWs but they're not necessarily any more reliable than scoobs imho.

mynickers

Adam - are yuou sure? Civic and Intergra are front wheel drive chassis - you might be able to convert them, although I never heard of that personally - admitidily I am not expert.

As for scoobs, I thought all the four wheel drive systems where fairly clever? Certinly more forgiving in a corner than a rear wheeler I would say!?! Which was the point I was trying to make.

Scooby mart

I think by Type R - the scooby sti V4 Type R (as in 2 door) was meant.

The Hondas are both front wheel drive.

All scoobys are 4WD, but the type R has an adjustable centre diff where you can direct approx 67% of the power to the rear wheels - giving more of a rear wheel drive feel.