Matt Oz

Apparently the Focus Cossie has been put back a couple of years and will not see the light of day officially until 2003 if not 2004!! I have a couple of mates with deposits down on them already ( poor misguided individuals!)310 bhp does seem a little high, although the Zetec motor is a little gem. They do an aftermarket T225 version at the moment with 225bhp. Costs the best part of £30K though

Mike Rainbird

Blubs,
I have seen Dr Anders and he said that it was a psychotic embolism and not to worry about it, that drugs and therapy will help .

Seriously, I just say it as it is. I can't see another car coming on the market that has the same abilities / price as a Scooby. None has so far, so what are the chances in the future?
Best regards
Mike

D Noble

auto car front page WOW focus cossie looks great(i hate fords in general but the focus is the exception ) it was first claimed that there would be no cossie or motorsport version of the focus,but it seems that every car maker has a rally replica and ford cant afford to miss out,but will it have 310bhp?this seems a little too much for european tastes(not mine btw) the next uk impreza will probably only have 220ish bhp because of emmissions/fuel consumption/cost etc,so why would ford up the stakes by so much?

does any one think it will arrive in this spec ,if it does then they might lure this loyal subaru driver away!

regards
D

RoShamBo

iTrader: (1)

I used to work for Ford & have many contacts in there still.
Word is (from some sort of Memo that went round) is that the production Focus Cossie will have around 240bhp
Cost wise it will be between £23-£25k
I havn't read the AutoCar report but if its as accurate as their P1 report "Exclusive" then they are probaby miles out with everything they are saying.

Ro

Mike Rainbird

The Focus will no way have anything like 310bhp as it would need to be quite highly tuned and the insurance companies and Ford's bean counters will put paid to that (don't want too many accident / warranty claims!).

Even if they do produce it (and I REALLY hate to say this), but I cannot imagine it will stand up very well against a Scooby. Even if it does (a miracle), then it will still be over-priced by comparison and it would have to come alot better equipped than the Scooby (or have much better tuning potential) to sway people to spend the extra.

And that is from a Cossie die-hard....!
LOL
Mike

blubs

Headlines!!!

Rainbird in pro-scooby statement shocker!!!

A visit to the doctor is required me-thinks

Petoir

My brother in-law owns a ford dealership. He's heard the Focus Cossie will be around 260/280 BHP, on-sale 2003/4, £25-28k.

I can't see it being worse than a scooby, otherwise, why bother?

johnfelstead

IS it going to be a 4x4 or FWD?

Anyone know?

Adam M

I heard 4x4.

Something about the rear suspension needing to be ditched in favour of new design to accomodate drivetrain.

although none of this really matters compare with the shock of Rainbird being a total traitor.

Is that terefore an admission that the escort cossie doesn't stand up to the mpreza either.

Can we therefore extend back to all production cossies?

Mike, I had respect for you before but now you have no credibility.

Mike Rainbird

Adam,
Look carefully at what I have said. But I will re-phrase it for the hard of reading . The Scooby is THE performance bargain of the decade.

Even if the Ford is as good as the Scooby, it is still going to be pitched in the £25-£30k bracket. Which in my mind does not make good economic sense. Just think what can be done to a UK Scooby for £3-£7K.....

You can't buy a new Escort Cossie now, but I would still rather have a second hand one of these for £13k and spend the extra that I have saved from the purchase of a new Scooby on making it a Ferrari / Porsche slayer (let alone something as mundane as a UK Scooby).

However, if the Focus Cossie was priced to compete with the Scooby and was eminantly more tuneable (which, let's face it, what isn't? ), as well as being equally capable (which will be a struggle, as the Scooby package is very good) then people will start to stray. But £3-7k is an awfully big price difference for an identical "type" of car don't you think? Ford will also have to offer a 60,000 mile three year warranty as well, have better dealers / after sales service (most are currently complete knobbers) and the build quality will need to improve as well.

Ford have no longer got the cool "poor man's Porsche" image that the Cossie gave them in the 80's, all they are known for at the moment is relatively boring main-stream euro-boxes. Subaru now have the image that any manufacturer would die for. Lots of people I know currently aspire to owning an Impreza, as it HAS become the Cossie of the 90's. By that I mean it is a supercar that is within the grasp of "normal" people.

I can't see how you think I am being a traitor though, as despite the above I have a Cossie and wouldn't trade it for any Impreza (not even a 22b), as my car gives me the buzz that I want, and no Scooby that I know of can do 175+mph or scare the **** out of you because the acceleration is just like on a Playstation game (and good enough to see a lot of bikes off once rolling)....

It's just that I know a good thing when I see it and at £22k new (or £15.5k from Europe!) an Impreza is hard to beat as an overall package. Evo VI? - too expensive, Audi S3 / Golf 4m? - too uninvolving and uncharismatic and still more expensive. Name me even ONE (new) car that has ALL the qualities of an Impreza...
Best regards
Mike R
PS. However, you still can't get away from the fact that they are 4wd cars for girls though...

Shaun

And of course we will all agree that Mike is the biggest girl of them all (so WHY has HE not got a 4x4!)

Just to add my two-pennith worth.....

I have been informed by a reliable source, that FORD DO intend in bringing out a HOT Focus, but it all comes down to market forces. Ford won't spend the money if it won't sell......remember the car production rules are now different for the WRC (they dont obviously have to run production models anymore!)

The car will apparently be in TWO phases, the first TURBO'd Focus SHOULD hopefully arrive by the end of next year, but this will only be 2WD. The full monty COSWORTH version (4WD), is not PENCILED in for another 1 to 2 yrs post!!!!!

Again, this is based on "Wait and see". If Ford know they will sell, they WILL PRODUCE it. Ford are more then aware of the current GAP in the market for performance mainstream cars, but of course they dont want to get stuck in the insurance hike problem, that killed it not too long ago!!!!

Shaun.

MarkCSC

I heard the same thing as Shaun again from a good source.

FWD turbo, probably less than 200bhp, later this year or early next.
4WD turbo, still undecided on specs or if it will go into production.

Mark

DavidRB

You also have to consider the Ford Racing Puma at £22k. This is <I>8 grand</I> more expensive than the standard Puma and it doesn't have four-wheel drive or a turbo added.

If they do an FWD turbo Focus, it will be at least £23k and I'd expect any 4WD super-turbo version to be nearer £30k.

Mike, as we all know, the Impreza engine struggles beyond 300bhp because it is only allowed 380bhp in competition trim, so they don't make it any stronger than necessary (hence the price is so low). The Sierra Cosworth was designed for 500bhp super-touring car regulations, hence was supplied with much tougher (yes, non-plastic ) internals.

As the Focus now only has to compete in 380bhp rallies, do you think that Ford will supply it with the same liquorice engine parts as Subaru does for the Impreza?

D Noble

the autocar artical(which claims to be a scoop) also mentions a fwd "st170" which will be pitched in at £17/18k as most of you point out 310bhp(reliable and usable) for 30k seems a bit too optimistic,especially when they will have to sell at least something like 5000 units a year to break even. do that many "brand new" wrx's or evo6's get sold yearly in uk/europe?
most people buy the impreza for its combination of price and power,yes people will for out 40k for a 22b or 28k for an sti,but not nearly enough to sell them officially. the focus will have to be no more than 24k with 200 hp to take sales from subaru and mitsubishi imho

Mike Rainbird

David,
The Zetec engine has already proven itself in turbo applications as being an equal to the Cossie lump. Severn Valley have extracted an "alleged" 400bhp out of one and so has Ian Howell (of Fiesta Frenzy fame).

Only time will tell if really BIG bhp can be extracted, your guess would therefore be as good as mine. However, I would point out that if the Scooby engines were built to the 380bhp limit there would be no problem. Unfortunately the engines are actually specced around the 280bhp Japanese limit, and it is only the "closed deck" blocks that are safe much beyond this for the 380bhp that you quote....
Best regards
Mike

jeremy

Ford have got to be the slowest moving car co. in the world. If they could only develop cars as fast as they buy other car companies we might have seen the Focus Cosworth at the right time- when they re-entered rallying!
And all this press about richard parry jones being an absolute genius, what the ell has he done, what Ford car handles so great? Ford could care absolutly one rat about any customer- not least about enthusiasts. For Ford it would truly take almost no-time at all to develop the Focus-all this 'development' time is a load of nasser.

AlexM

Mike,

So how much of the Zetec engine is left as stock when producing 400hp?. Not much I'll bet. How long would it live for and cost to build?. As with the 10.5 standing qtr Impreza with 440bhp at the wheels... probably not much left as standard with that either, but clearly there is plenty of potential there (if you know where to find it).

Like the Impreza lump it is a lowly production lump tricked up to produce a fair bit of power, rather than a detuned homologation special race engine (like a proper cossie). As such, the internals would have been specced for the desired output plus a certain safety margin. At least the Impreza's motor was designed with turbo applications in mind from the outset.

P.S. why are open deck blocks unsuitable for > 300bhp applications?. As far as I know, the main advantage of a closed deck block is that it gives you a flat mating surface for the head gasket? Maybe a bit more torsional rigidity too.. Does anyone know for sure?

BTW, I have read elsewhere that the crank on a UK spec car is IDENTICAL to that fitted to the STI. Allowing for improved pistons and a bit of balancing, how else does the design of the bottom end differ?.

Cheers,

Alex

simes

200 BHP through 2 wheels? Blimey!

I had a focus 2.0 for a short while, with traction control. It seemed to work by leaving you stranded in the middle of the road with no power while you shouted "come on you ba5tard" at the thing. I took to switching it off if I needed to set off a bit quick. I hate to think what it would be like with 200BHP to play with (albeit thru better suspension, tyres etc).

Incidentally, ford cunningly fitted an extremely annoying yellow light that came on if you switched the traction control off, so it was a PITA to leave off.

Eventually, the traction control became it's own worst enemy, since I started to play "how long can I get the traction contol light to come on for" games driving down twisty roads, don't that's what they're meant for!

Simon

Mike Rainbird

Alex,
Note that I said "allegedly". But from what I can gather the Zetec engine is very strong and it was just the pistons that were decompressed for the turbo application and beefed up oilways and cooling systems (oil and water) as well as sodium filled valves. However, I will reserve judgement for when Ford produces the genuine article. But to get 300+bhp from a 2.0 litre, they will need to run well over 1 bar of boost, and I think that would not be viable on an engine given to "Joe Public", who might not treat it with the same respect as an enthusiast (regular oil changes etc) and it would be considered too highly tuned by the bean-counters. Remember the original Cossie lump was capped off at 240bhp by Cosworth and Ford's top brass told them to go away and detune it!
LOL
Mike

JayDee

I suspect the main reason why ford are being cautious has a lot more to do with company image than engineering. If Ford do produce a real banzai machine, and I have no doubt they could easily do this, then the safety lobby may start wittering on about Ford being irresponsible.. and sales of other, bread and butter fords, would suffer.

So Ford are testing the water carefully

Remember the Lotus Carlton.

JD

rsquire

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Even if they do produce it (and I REALLY hate to say this), but I cannot imagine it will stand up very well against a Scooby. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bloody Hell

The Pacific North West is still recovering..

Just too Gob smacked to respond earlier!!!



Richard

[This message has been edited by rsquire (edited 13-07-2000).]

Mike Rainbird

Richard,
Bvgger off!

And while you're at it, read your bloody mail!
LOL
Mike

Adam M

Forgive me Mike, I forgot to include the smilies on my posting, I was just pulling your leg.

Agree with your comments re image and ferrari slaying by investing money in performance mods.

Also have to say that I love Escort cossies and would gladly own one won day just for shear on road presence.

To me though the only daddy of all these cars that I would have over any poxy sapphire or escort cossie has to be an RS200, which unfortunately for me does bear a ford badge and is a cosworth. but then how can I hate ford? They give me my livlihood!

Sorry guys!

Iain P

I'd love to add to the debate regarding the Cossy Focus but can't. I will tell you that none of you are correct in your assumptions and not even talking about the correct engine / vehicle for it!

MarkCSC

Iain

4WD V6 twin turbo Mondeo? Please

RS turbo Transit?

Give us a hint.

Mark

Mike Rainbird

A proper road going version of the YB engined Puma would be nice thank you.....

Neil Smalley

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Iain P:
<B>I'd love to add to the debate regarding the Cossy Focus but can't. I will tell you that none of you are correct in your assumptions and not even talking about the correct engine / vehicle for it![/quote]

You mean the new focus cosworth will be a diesel?

D Noble

Iain P,
isnt the mondeo being replaced soon????
surely its not going to be based around that, go on tell us,we wont say anything!

regards

Iain P

Not Focus and not new Mondeo but something completely new!

Gary Foster

It's got to be a 2 seater roadster type affair. Ford are one of few major manufacturer's that hasn't produced one.

They must be mad those things are selling like hot cakes right now.

Gary