Prodrive..Are you going to give our P1's more power?
13 August 2000 | 11:05 PM
#1
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Now that we know Prodrive are represented on scoobynet 
...
Are you blokes planning to gives a performance pack for the P1 eh? More power & torque nudge nudge wink wink knowwotImean eh? Come on, you know you want to!
...Are you blokes planning to gives a performance pack for the P1 eh? More power & torque nudge nudge wink wink knowwotImean eh? Come on, you know you want to!
14 August 2000 | 11:20 AM
#3
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Hi,
I think you will find Prodrive will manufacture whatever sells and makes them a profit.. while not incurring or producing any warranty/maintenance issues..
They are a business.. in it for the money.. not for the pleasure.. :}
J.
I think you will find Prodrive will manufacture whatever sells and makes them a profit.. while not incurring or producing any warranty/maintenance issues..
They are a business.. in it for the money.. not for the pleasure.. :}
J.
21 August 2000 | 02:28 PM
#4
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From: Solihull
Hi All
We have completed an extensive test program with a performance package for the P1. As we all know, the engine in it's current 280ps form is very highly developed and increasing power output whilst not compromising other aspects such as NVH or reliability was never going to be easy.
We have developed a unique silencer for the car (although it looks similar externally to the normal performance package silencer, it is different internally to suit the higher power output)and we also tried a new ECU specification. This new spec was as far as STI were prepared to increase output to for use safely with our fuel and ensure reliability over extended mileage.
During our testing we found that the ECU made a small improvement but the silencer made at least as much improvement if not more in certain conditions.
As a result we felt that a complete performance package would not be a viable proposition from a cost to performance increase basis and hence we are only offering the silencer on it's own.
Please remember that we are not solely concerned with just selling as many products as possible, we have to consider many other things as well such as reliability and ease of maintenance etc. We are in business of course but we are not prepared to sell just anything solely to make a profit.
You may also be surprised to find that we do enjoy it as well!!
On a similar subject, the 18" wheel and tyre conversion for the P1, as stated in Autocar, does not ruin the ride of the car and actually gives a better ride in most circumstances. Please do not try to pre-judge the effects based on experience with other vehicles (even other Impreza models), they may not necessarily apply. The unique suspenion spec of the P1 was developed around both 17 & 18" wheels and PZero tyres, hence the good reports.
As suggested we are looking at a range of parts for the next Impreza model, details of which will be released as the parts become available.
We have also finished the development of some other parts for the current Impreza models such as:-
Rear silencer for both all Turbo and 99/00MY normally aspirated cars with a unique oval tailpipe design.
Recaro seats in OE trim for 99/00MY 4dr Turbo
A new specification of Bilstein / Eibach suspension which is firmer and more responsive without destroying the ride, giving better steering response and feel.
I hope this helps to answer the various questions.
Regards
Mike Wood
We have completed an extensive test program with a performance package for the P1. As we all know, the engine in it's current 280ps form is very highly developed and increasing power output whilst not compromising other aspects such as NVH or reliability was never going to be easy.
We have developed a unique silencer for the car (although it looks similar externally to the normal performance package silencer, it is different internally to suit the higher power output)and we also tried a new ECU specification. This new spec was as far as STI were prepared to increase output to for use safely with our fuel and ensure reliability over extended mileage.
During our testing we found that the ECU made a small improvement but the silencer made at least as much improvement if not more in certain conditions.
As a result we felt that a complete performance package would not be a viable proposition from a cost to performance increase basis and hence we are only offering the silencer on it's own.
Please remember that we are not solely concerned with just selling as many products as possible, we have to consider many other things as well such as reliability and ease of maintenance etc. We are in business of course but we are not prepared to sell just anything solely to make a profit.
You may also be surprised to find that we do enjoy it as well!!
On a similar subject, the 18" wheel and tyre conversion for the P1, as stated in Autocar, does not ruin the ride of the car and actually gives a better ride in most circumstances. Please do not try to pre-judge the effects based on experience with other vehicles (even other Impreza models), they may not necessarily apply. The unique suspenion spec of the P1 was developed around both 17 & 18" wheels and PZero tyres, hence the good reports.
As suggested we are looking at a range of parts for the next Impreza model, details of which will be released as the parts become available.
We have also finished the development of some other parts for the current Impreza models such as:-
Rear silencer for both all Turbo and 99/00MY normally aspirated cars with a unique oval tailpipe design.
Recaro seats in OE trim for 99/00MY 4dr Turbo
A new specification of Bilstein / Eibach suspension which is firmer and more responsive without destroying the ride, giving better steering response and feel.
I hope this helps to answer the various questions.
Regards
Mike Wood
21 August 2000 | 04:44 PM
#7
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From: Solihull
Craig
I think you already know the answer to that question!
As we sell all our parts through the UK Subaru Dealer network, even a P1 owner would not be able to buy them from us. But he could buy them from a Dealer.
Mike
I think you already know the answer to that question!
As we sell all our parts through the UK Subaru Dealer network, even a P1 owner would not be able to buy them from us. But he could buy them from a Dealer.
Mike
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21 August 2000 | 09:10 PM
#13
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From: Where age and treachery reins over youthful exuberance
Arron, the figures you're quoting don't add up. Judging by the shape of other power graphs I've seen, if you were only getting 212lb ft you would have to rev to about 7,000 rpm to get 258 bhp. But you got 258 bhp at well under 6,000, didn't you?
I can't believe even the most sickly P1 would give only 258 bhp. And on the dyno, isn't it torque that's measured and bhp calculated from it? (torque x time = bhp)
It just doesn't make sense. Why not take it along to the session Stef is organising? Different dyno figures are notoriously hard to compare. The only sure way is to test a lot of cars together so that then, even if the dyno is out, at least all the cars are out by the same amount.
Hoppy
I can't believe even the most sickly P1 would give only 258 bhp. And on the dyno, isn't it torque that's measured and bhp calculated from it? (torque x time = bhp)
It just doesn't make sense. Why not take it along to the session Stef is organising? Different dyno figures are notoriously hard to compare. The only sure way is to test a lot of cars together so that then, even if the dyno is out, at least all the cars are out by the same amount.
Hoppy
21 August 2000 | 09:26 PM
#14
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by MikeWood:
Rear silencer for both all Turbo and 99/00MY normally aspirated cars with a unique oval tailpipe design.
Recaro seats in OE trim for 99/00MY 4dr Turbo
A new specification of Bilstein / Eibach suspension which is firmer and more responsive without destroying the ride, giving better steering response and feel.
Mike Wood [/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Mike do you have prices for these yet?
Rear silencer for both all Turbo and 99/00MY normally aspirated cars with a unique oval tailpipe design.
Recaro seats in OE trim for 99/00MY 4dr Turbo
A new specification of Bilstein / Eibach suspension which is firmer and more responsive without destroying the ride, giving better steering response and feel.
Mike Wood [/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Mike do you have prices for these yet?
22 August 2000 | 03:32 PM
#16
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From: Solihull
Aaron
As stated in this and many other topics, rolling road power outputs are not directly comparable from one day to the next, never mind between different rollers. The very high transmission losses seem top point towards the rollers being incorrectly spaced. As the car is loaded during any power run the wheel base changes due to flexing in the various rubber bushes, hence different power losses between power and coast cycles. This means the results could be completely misleading.
The only sure way is to use an engine dyno. This was done in Japan using the appropriate fuel and the results are those quoted.
Jason
Turbo rear silencer is £350
N/A rear silencer is £300
New suspension is the same price as the previous kit £1145.63
All prices are including vat but not fitting
Thanks
Mike
As stated in this and many other topics, rolling road power outputs are not directly comparable from one day to the next, never mind between different rollers. The very high transmission losses seem top point towards the rollers being incorrectly spaced. As the car is loaded during any power run the wheel base changes due to flexing in the various rubber bushes, hence different power losses between power and coast cycles. This means the results could be completely misleading.
The only sure way is to use an engine dyno. This was done in Japan using the appropriate fuel and the results are those quoted.
Jason
Turbo rear silencer is £350
N/A rear silencer is £300
New suspension is the same price as the previous kit £1145.63
All prices are including vat but not fitting
Thanks
Mike
22 August 2000 | 11:20 PM
#17
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From: Cambs
Neil, very nice.
Mike thanks for your reply.
I am not too bothered about power figures I was at Powerstation getting the car to handle the way I think it should and I decided to put it on the rollers out of interest really.
I`m not to sure about the figures, something doesn`nt ring true.
I can honestly say that I love the car now but why did`nt the car get a quicker steering rack?
Also why did I have to pay another £100 to get it to handle?
Did you launch the car so that anybody could drive it?
Was sfety a concern because I think that its safer now than it was before.
The car still lacks outright grip because of the thickness of the tyres but I begrudge spending more money on it.
To me it should have come with all the trimmings for the £34k price that I paid.
Interestingly I also think that the car you so kindly let me test somehow felt a little different to the car I had deliverd.
Felt more like the car I have now.
Regards,
Arron.
[This message has been edited by ARRON BIRD (edited 22 August 2000).]
Mike thanks for your reply.
I am not too bothered about power figures I was at Powerstation getting the car to handle the way I think it should and I decided to put it on the rollers out of interest really.
I`m not to sure about the figures, something doesn`nt ring true.
I can honestly say that I love the car now but why did`nt the car get a quicker steering rack?
Also why did I have to pay another £100 to get it to handle?
Did you launch the car so that anybody could drive it?
Was sfety a concern because I think that its safer now than it was before.
The car still lacks outright grip because of the thickness of the tyres but I begrudge spending more money on it.
To me it should have come with all the trimmings for the £34k price that I paid.
Interestingly I also think that the car you so kindly let me test somehow felt a little different to the car I had deliverd.
Felt more like the car I have now.
Regards,
Arron.
[This message has been edited by ARRON BIRD (edited 22 August 2000).]
25 August 2000 | 12:13 PM
#19
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From: Prodrive LA
Mike is away for a few days so I’ll add my two-penneth today.
As most of you probably know I look after export sales and so do not sell P1’s, however I have a fair amount of “time” on several different vehicles.
The “P1” that is delivered to dealers HAS to be safe for ALL to drive, it is set-up with the lowest common denominator in mind. This has nothing to do with economising or defrauding the buyers. This is true of ALL production vehicles (to a greater or lesser extent)
You did not pay £100 to “get your car to handle” you paid it to change the handling of you vehicle to match your driving style, surly it would be unreasonable to expect all 1000 vehicles to be set-up to match your driving style?
Having said that, I am sure that in reality most of the P1 owners would prefer it like this – BUT, as I said, it has to be set to be “safe” for the least capable driver, you may feel it’s safer now but a poor driver may not.
The rack question has been approached before, to reiterate, it was originally envisaged that the car would come with a quicker rack than is normally fitted to the STi cars. Extensive testing has shown that steering feel, turn in performance and NVH was significantly better with the “normal” WRX STi rack. The decision had NOTHING to do with money or marketing or availability or anything else.
At the end of the day you have bought a production car, it may be low volume but it is still a production car with production car compromises. Those compromises may be more shaded or hidden on a P1 but they still exist, it is a very good car but it is not possible for it to be perfect for all of the people all of the time…
Hope this doesn’t cause any hard feeling, it’s not meant to be official comment from Prodrive – Just an enthusiast who happens to believe in the products we supply.
Cheers guys
Simon
As most of you probably know I look after export sales and so do not sell P1’s, however I have a fair amount of “time” on several different vehicles.
The “P1” that is delivered to dealers HAS to be safe for ALL to drive, it is set-up with the lowest common denominator in mind. This has nothing to do with economising or defrauding the buyers. This is true of ALL production vehicles (to a greater or lesser extent)
You did not pay £100 to “get your car to handle” you paid it to change the handling of you vehicle to match your driving style, surly it would be unreasonable to expect all 1000 vehicles to be set-up to match your driving style?
Having said that, I am sure that in reality most of the P1 owners would prefer it like this – BUT, as I said, it has to be set to be “safe” for the least capable driver, you may feel it’s safer now but a poor driver may not.
The rack question has been approached before, to reiterate, it was originally envisaged that the car would come with a quicker rack than is normally fitted to the STi cars. Extensive testing has shown that steering feel, turn in performance and NVH was significantly better with the “normal” WRX STi rack. The decision had NOTHING to do with money or marketing or availability or anything else.
At the end of the day you have bought a production car, it may be low volume but it is still a production car with production car compromises. Those compromises may be more shaded or hidden on a P1 but they still exist, it is a very good car but it is not possible for it to be perfect for all of the people all of the time…
Hope this doesn’t cause any hard feeling, it’s not meant to be official comment from Prodrive – Just an enthusiast who happens to believe in the products we supply.
Cheers guys
Simon
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