turbo2toes

Just crossing a crossroad junction following a Discovery in as 30 zone.

Discovery starts to pull to the left, heading for a layby with no indication.

I indicate and pull to the right to overtake assuming they are going into the layby.

Anyway whilst nearly parallel with them I see the discovery indicate right obviously hasn't seen me. And proceeded to turn into a car park.

I therefore make the decision to prevent the full on broadside, and accelerated out of the way.

Luckily she only just caught my rear near side door, wheel and bumper. (v.v.minor just scratches)

Her front bumper was snapped and in tatters.

Anyway due to the acceleration (from 25-35mph) in a 30 zone. I had a lot of grief concerning going to fast young lad etc. from some witnesses.

Anyway the witnesses did not leave any details for the other driver I am unsure whether she knows them personally or not but it didn't look like it. So we exchanged details and left the scene neither admitting responsibility.

The damage on my scoob is so minor you can hardly see it, it will probably polish off so I am not wanting to pay the £450 excess it isn't worth it.

I admit that you should never assume anything and that I was at fault for assuming she was pulling into a layby with no indication.

But she didn't indicate until she started to turn and I was beside her.

I dont know how the law stands, but because I was on the other side of the road, does that matter?

I have spoken to my insurance co. And am waiting a phone call from the husband.

Opinions gratefully recieved

wonfa

if they decide to got through their insurance you havent got much choice but to go through yours,
its difficult to say whos at fault, probably you as no matter what you think they were going to do you over took them at thats what they will tell their insurance,
best thing to do is to leave it with your insurance cause thats what we pay them for!

ricardo

Had she actually moved into the layby at all, before turning right ?
It is her responsibility to make sure she can turn right safely, and the fact that the contact was with the rear of the left of your car suggests that she collided with you, rather than the other way round.

Difficult to prove anything, and if the damage is minor then it might be best to do it without a claim.

I Am Not A Lawyer.

talizman

iTrader: (1)

I assume you were both on the minor road at the crossroads, at a giveway, crossing the major road?

Did your minor road have enough space for 2 cars, one turning left and one right?

If not, and you pulled onto the wrong side of the road to overtake a car which was turning left and would be first out of the side road anyway, then you are at fault, and your actions will be deemed "impatient".

I think you are buggered if she pursues it bud.

MikeCardiff

iTrader: (2)

I would have said from the sound of it you are at fault - its not safe to overtake another car where there is a right hand junction - especially if they arent indicating as you dont know where they are going to turn. Assuming what other road users are going to do is never a good plan.

As I'm sure you know, you shouldnt have been so impatient, and should have hung back and waited to see what they were going to do - yes, she was at fault for not looking before she turned, but if you were on a road waiting to turn right into a side road, would you expect someone to try and overtake you and pass in the next lane ?

chrisola

all this trouble for being in a rush and trying to overtake someone who you guessed was pulling into laybye just because of their road position?

I hope you are more careful around HGVS and dont assume they are going a certain direction based on their road position!

Unlucky if you have to go through your insurance matey but i guess what doesnt kill us makes us stronger & wiser (and our insurance premiums higher in this case!) :P

turbo2toes

Yeah,

Wiser and much much skinter!

I wasn't at the cross road junction though I had gone past that! The car park is a pokey little thing on the right on a minor road after the cross roads, with a laybe directly opposite the turning.

She had two wheels into the layby, so I honestly thought she was going into it. But as you say never assume anythying!

Only problem is i have a nasty scratch on my nearside front door, which wasn't hit in the accident so I cant get away with getting that in aswell for my £450 excess, should she claim.



Joys of motoring.

Coupe-Se

When you overtook, did your vehicle at any time cross the lines in the centre of the road??

If as you state; the other vehicle had two wheel inside the lines of the layby with no right indication and was pulling left and you in effect continued forward without crossing into the other side of the road; your insurance company will not payout on her claim.

If this is the case, best to take a few photo's of the accident site to show the road layout and send them to the insurance company.

If you did cross onto the other carriageway, and did indicate to overtake the vehicle infront, it looks like its well worth arguing and sticking to your guns.
In cases that are not clear cut, the Insurance company will ask you first if you agree to being at blame before settling.

I had a similar incident and refused to accept responsibilty (they were initially going to pay out on the other drivers claim), I submitted photo's and made it quite clear how determined I was and in the end they refused the other drivers claim.

SiDHEaD

U need to scrape it a bit then

mart360

Based on you first statement, i would be prepared to cough up,

you made an assumption based on her course of actions, rather than hang back, or use your horn to warn her of your intentions..

unless you have a big wodge of cash to pay for her repairs, i rewckon it will go through the insurance,


ps piccys or a sketch would help


Mart

rico2k_uk

you may be liable, as someone said because they did not indicate in. however, if no witnesses left any contact detaisl, its will be a matter of your word against hers.

in this situation, the insurer may get you both to sketch what you belived what happened. they may also at the end of it go on a knock for knock basis. meaning it is split liability. your fault for not waiting, her fault for being a dozy bint.

personally, i would fight your courner. because of the damage to your car being far end corner, it shows that you overtook (which is legal to do in towns, etc) and almost passed. what it doesnt show is if you pulled in too early or she pulled out. it does help your story tho.

dont bother going to your insurer. maybe call and advise your side if you can be arsed, but not essential as they will contact you if nessesary. if she trys to claim off you, do contest. and contest bitterly.

good luck!

paulquest

Be careful what the pics show.

If they show solid white lines or a solid ghost island you will be at fault for crossing those lines and possibly liable for prosecution as well.
The only time you can cross those lines is if the vehicle is stationary. (unless it is a farm vehicle, bike etc. doing less than 10mph.)

stevie boy

was the disco speed less than the legal limit?
was it safe to travel at the legal limit?
was it safe to overtake at the time you did? (I.e. no on coming traffic, not on a bend, no solid white line on your side (if you had to cross the center), no other visible hazards and no right hand indicator from the disco, etc)

If you answer yes to all the above then I’d say your ok to overtake, the fact that you where involved in an RTA was because the other driver did not follow the mirror, signal, maneuver procedure. The whole point of the mirror part is to see if it’s safe before you do anything. This was drummed into me on my car and both my hgv tests.

we all make assumptions all the time: - not going to have a blow out when we turn in to a corner, there's not going to be a car on a suicide overtake on the wrong side of the road around the bend, the driver of the car we are overtaking doesn't have a heart attack as where alongside and wing it into us, the engine doesn't give up the ghost as we pull out to overtake. All we can do is make it as safe as possible, but there is still a minimal but acceptable level of risk / assumption.

To chrisola - the main problem I have with cars presuming things where my road position is concerned is when going around islands, if you’re a truck driver you'll know what I mean. I wouldn't turn right without checking my mirror, an I try to get my indicator on for at least 4 flashes before I brake never mind turn, if I didn't do that and I hit someone I wouldn't be blaming the other dude.

Stevie

turbo2toes

Yes she was nearly stationary with at least one wheel over the layby line. I approached at about 20 mph and accelarated upto 30. I was over the line with two wheels on the other side of the road. I nearly managed to get passed before it struck me. (More power needed! not that I can afford it now!)

Apart from the carpark junction where the accident happened there was no other obstruction or cause for concern for a slow overtaking manouvere, nothing coming in the opposite direction.


I suppose I will have to wait and see what comes from my insurance company.

Lost a little bit of the love for the scoob today tho! Hidden costs seem to crop up everywhere. See how I feel tommorow before I put it on Classifieds!

thanks everyone for your assistance.

I may attempt a pic for further investigation tommorow, for all you columbos out there!

Many thanks again

Lum

You wouldn't expect a Discovery to have to do a swan neck manouvre in order to make a right turn into a car park. An HGV I could understand but Discovery's aren't that big!

I think the point here is, if you are going to do that, indicate before pulling in the opposite direction so that the car behind has some clue what you're doing. This person signalled after starting their manouvre. Since the impact is behind the B pillar, that could swing it your way.

If that scratch on your front door was not part of the accident, do not try to blag it at this stage, as this would mean that the impact was in front of the B pillar which makes it look worse. If you're getting a new door painted up they will have to overpaint into that area anyway to get a good colour match.

BedHog

Sounds like you were at fault... just bad and impatient driving.

stevie boy

care to expand on that?

some people seem to think its against the law to overtake. you will fail a driving test if you fail to make sufficient progress which includes not doing an overtake of a slow moving vehicle when its safe to do so.

stevie

rico2k_uk

tbh from my experience in the insurance industry (yes, i am scum ), you should be ok...

MikeCardiff

iTrader: (2)

Had the accident happened on a straight stretch of road with no junctions, drives, car park entrances etc... then I would say the Disco driver was at fault for turning without indicating or looking - BUT.... it isnt safe to overtake a car when there is a junction or opening on the right if they have slowed down as they may decide to pull into it without looking or indicating ( as happened here ). Its especially unsafe to do it if there is a chance the car in front could either turn left or right and you dont know which.

Being a biker as well, this is drilled into you when you are learning as loads of bikers get T-Boned doing exactly this sort of thing. Assuming the person in front isnt a complete muppet and has a clue what they are doing and knows there are other cars on the road besides theirs is pretty risky.

The one good thing about it all is that nobody was hurt ( imagine if the OP had been on a national speed limit road and overtook at 60 or 70 ) - cars can be fixed a lot more easily than people ! And it should make you think twice if in the same situation again - lets be honest, we all make mistakes when driving at some poiint, 9 times out of 10 we'll get away with it, but sometimes we dont and it causes an accident - the point here I think is to learn from it and it'll make you a better driver.

ScoobyDoo555

I think the key thing here is lack of proof either way

The best thing is to go through the insurance (you have to tell them anyway - in case the Disco driver claims any injuries) - then decide on whether to claim or not.

This happened to me a few years back (some might remember when a driver t-bone my Scooby whilst we were performing a 3 point turn).
It eventually went knock-for-knock, as there were no witnesses (despite the many piccies and statements!!!! I'm not bitter about it, honest!! )Just grin and bear it.

Hope you get it sorted soon.

Dan

MikeCardiff

iTrader: (2)

#17 - you'll fail your driving test a hell of a lot quicker if you perform unsafe overtaking as well !

When I was learning I was always told that if you arent sure what the person in front is going to do ( lets face it, most drivers seem to think that if they never use their indicators it will make their car worth more when they sell it ! ) you always err on the side of caution and wait rather than base your decision on an assumption.

turbo2toes

I think the point you all are making is that no one should assume anything and care should be taken at all times, which I completely agree upon.

However, everyone is guilty of lapses of concentration at times

The driver of the discovery was also guilty of the same lapse of concentration as I. These are the circumstances when accidents happen.

Accidents happen everyday, and in this instance I am glad mine was a minor bump, which may of kicked some inner sense into me, saving me from the hypothetical smash into a tree at 90 which could of happened next week!

Looking at it in a positive manner the cost for a potentially life saving 'accident' stands me at a possible £450. May sting a little but at least I can still walk!