Rally Harnesses
#1
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Rally Harnesses
I want to fit some Sabelt Rally Harnesses to my 1999 Impreza. I dint want to have to drill any holes etc.
So whats the best ones to get, 3 or 4 Point?
Are they hard to fit?
So whats the best ones to get, 3 or 4 Point?
Are they hard to fit?
#2
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Why? They can be deadly in a car that doesnt have a seperate roll cage (and a roll cage can be deadly if youre using OEM seats...). One firther point; if you dont want to fit them properly then Id ask you again: why bother?
Simon
to anyone who wants to know best and tell me that theyre perfectly safe in their road car; save your breath and spend your time finding out what youre talking about
Simon
to anyone who wants to know best and tell me that theyre perfectly safe in their road car; save your breath and spend your time finding out what youre talking about
#4
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Hopelessly impractical: you cant move
Dangerous to use for everyday driving: you cant look around
Illegal as the only restraint in a road car
Seldom fitted properly
Extremely dangerous in the event of a large accident
Dangerous to use for everyday driving: you cant look around
Illegal as the only restraint in a road car
Seldom fitted properly
Extremely dangerous in the event of a large accident
#7
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Originally Posted by GC8
Hopelessly impractical: you cant move
Dangerous to use for everyday driving: you cant look around
Illegal as the only restraint in a road car
Seldom fitted properly
Extremely dangerous in the event of a large accident
Dangerous to use for everyday driving: you cant look around
Illegal as the only restraint in a road car
Seldom fitted properly
Extremely dangerous in the event of a large accident
I've seen the effects that seatbelts do and thay cant be worse than that!
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#8
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Its obvious surely? A seatbelt is designed to restrain you but still allow you to move. If youre wearing a silly harness thats holding you firmly into a seat, without any give at all and the body distorts; then youre fucked, arent you?
#10
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Originally Posted by GC8
Its obvious surely? A seatbelt is designed to restrain you but still allow you to move. If youre wearing a silly harness thats holding you firmly into a seat, without any give at all and the body distorts; then youre fucked, arent you?
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Originally Posted by CyprusScooby
But surely they use them in motorsport cause the're better!
#14
GC8, I understand and agree with most of your arguments. Until recently I had a cage and bucket seats + harnesses. I have removed the cage and seats (replaced with standard) as I want to use the car more on road. I will be doing some trackdays so have retained the harnesses (attached using a bolt-in harness bar) for use on track with the standard seats.
I can see that if the car rolls, you're potentially in a worse situation than you would be wearing a seatbelt. However, in other shunts, isn't it better to be firmly strapped in rather than rattling round like a pea in a tin can as you'd (relatively) be doing if wearing only a belt. Isn't it swings and roundabouts - seatbelt better in some circumstances, harness better in others?
Also, my car got through the MOT last year with only harnesses. Not sure if this was correct application of the rules, but aren't there some road-legal cars that are only fitted with harnesses...?
I can see that if the car rolls, you're potentially in a worse situation than you would be wearing a seatbelt. However, in other shunts, isn't it better to be firmly strapped in rather than rattling round like a pea in a tin can as you'd (relatively) be doing if wearing only a belt. Isn't it swings and roundabouts - seatbelt better in some circumstances, harness better in others?
Also, my car got through the MOT last year with only harnesses. Not sure if this was correct application of the rules, but aren't there some road-legal cars that are only fitted with harnesses...?
#15
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Purely as a question and in no way meant as a "How do you know!?"
Is the roll cage and OE seats dangerous because OE seats will have some movement in an accident and you could hit the cage?
I've heard of harnesses being used with reclining seats and the forces in an accident bending/snapping the seat frame.
Is the roll cage and OE seats dangerous because OE seats will have some movement in an accident and you could hit the cage?
I've heard of harnesses being used with reclining seats and the forces in an accident bending/snapping the seat frame.
#16
Originally Posted by EddScott
Is the roll cage and OE seats dangerous because OE seats will have some movement in an accident and you could hit the cage?
#17
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Surely if you had a padded cage, fixed bucket seats & harnesses mounted correctly, thats going to be better if you roll the car as you're going to be secured in your seat when you go upside down. From in-car footage Ive watch on rally stages where they've rolled, it certainly looks more beneficial to me.
However I could understand that unless you're wearing a helmet/neck support/hans device, being in a big shunt where the deceleration is extremely rapid (using on public roads - on coming vehicles etc), your going to be worse off.
CyprusScooby -
If you are going to get one, get a 5 point harness so that it has a crotch strap (anti-submarining). Incidentally, they arent recommended to use with reclining seats as the seats will just collapse in the event of a big collision. In other words, dont use them on the road and without all the other relevant safety devices, otherwise... you could get yourself in a right pickle for the sake of looking cool (maybe???)
All just IMHO
However I could understand that unless you're wearing a helmet/neck support/hans device, being in a big shunt where the deceleration is extremely rapid (using on public roads - on coming vehicles etc), your going to be worse off.
CyprusScooby -
If you are going to get one, get a 5 point harness so that it has a crotch strap (anti-submarining). Incidentally, they arent recommended to use with reclining seats as the seats will just collapse in the event of a big collision. In other words, dont use them on the road and without all the other relevant safety devices, otherwise... you could get yourself in a right pickle for the sake of looking cool (maybe???)
All just IMHO
Last edited by Jay_bee; 17 July 2006 at 01:22 PM.
#18
the std seats have moving backs, with a relatively weak mechanism.
to stop yourself moving too far in an accident you have to be strapped in really tight. Putting a lot of pressure on the mechanism. When that breaks you're no longer held in at all.
3 or 4 points can ride up in an accident causing pressure in the chest or whatever, putting you in danger if you're unconcious. 5 or 6 point wont go in road seats
The belts need to be mounted correctly, which means back seats are useless.
If you want harnesses you must have fixed back seats, which won't collapse in a roll. In which case you want a cage so the seat wont need to collapse in a roll. Then you really want a helmet too incase you smash your head on the cage.
Competition cars have them as part of a complete package, on their own not very clever I think.
to stop yourself moving too far in an accident you have to be strapped in really tight. Putting a lot of pressure on the mechanism. When that breaks you're no longer held in at all.
3 or 4 points can ride up in an accident causing pressure in the chest or whatever, putting you in danger if you're unconcious. 5 or 6 point wont go in road seats
The belts need to be mounted correctly, which means back seats are useless.
If you want harnesses you must have fixed back seats, which won't collapse in a roll. In which case you want a cage so the seat wont need to collapse in a roll. Then you really want a helmet too incase you smash your head on the cage.
Competition cars have them as part of a complete package, on their own not very clever I think.
#19
Originally Posted by EddScott
Purely as a question and in no way meant as a "How do you know!?"
Is the roll cage and OE seats dangerous because OE seats will have some movement in an accident and you could hit the cage?
I've heard of harnesses being used with reclining seats and the forces in an accident bending/snapping the seat frame.
Is the roll cage and OE seats dangerous because OE seats will have some movement in an accident and you could hit the cage?
I've heard of harnesses being used with reclining seats and the forces in an accident bending/snapping the seat frame.
#20
Thanks for your advice RB5_245, much appreciated.
Why? What's the advantage of collapsing seat + seatbelt vs collapsing seat + harness?
Not trying to be difficult, just trying to sort this out for my own car in order to be as safe as possible.
Originally Posted by RB5_245
If you want harnesses you must have fixed back seats, which won't collapse in a roll.
Not trying to be difficult, just trying to sort this out for my own car in order to be as safe as possible.
#22
a seat belt is always adjusting and placing no strain on the seat back, when it locks you're restrained (all be it not very well) with only your body stressing the seat. Yes you can get flung like a rag doll, but i think not much more so that if your seat collapses and you're harnessed
If you're harnessed in, the seat is already pre-loaded with a large leverage action on the hinge. if that bends or collapses then your harness becomes a free floating spiders web. loose sholder straps and tight side straps, assuming 3 or 4 point... I think imagination can take over there but I can only see you ending up in a bad situation.
Has to be said, this is only my opinion.
Dave
If you're harnessed in, the seat is already pre-loaded with a large leverage action on the hinge. if that bends or collapses then your harness becomes a free floating spiders web. loose sholder straps and tight side straps, assuming 3 or 4 point... I think imagination can take over there but I can only see you ending up in a bad situation.
Has to be said, this is only my opinion.
Dave
#23
Much appreciated, thanks. Are you saying that loosening the shoulder straps slightly, so as to mimic what a seatbelt does (but slightly better due to more/better straps, is better than strapping oneself in as tight as possible?
#24
no, if you loosen the straps even a little, you really are in loose and actually can move a surprisingly long way forward! If you're strapped in the seat becomes a pivot, or bracket for the belt which has to accept any forces through it, where a 3 point seat belt is a standalone thing almost.
I'd say if you looked at it imagine driving on a stool. A 3 point belt would still work, but imagine strapping yourself in with a harness sitting on a stool, which is pretty much where you're at if you break the seat back.
Dave
I'd say if you looked at it imagine driving on a stool. A 3 point belt would still work, but imagine strapping yourself in with a harness sitting on a stool, which is pretty much where you're at if you break the seat back.
Dave
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You can get 3 point harnesses with a roller, like a normal seat belt has.
I had these in my WRX and was involved in a head on. No problems here.
They were however mounted to the rear seat uprights. Not to the factory front seats which WILL fold on an Impact, they are designed to do so.
That said I will not use roller ones again. I am fitting an FIA cage FIA seat and harnesses in my track Impreza. My personal experience tells me that the 3 point harnesses were ok in a smash. My car was actually static at the time though. Things may have been different if I were moving at the time....
I had these in my WRX and was involved in a head on. No problems here.
They were however mounted to the rear seat uprights. Not to the factory front seats which WILL fold on an Impact, they are designed to do so.
That said I will not use roller ones again. I am fitting an FIA cage FIA seat and harnesses in my track Impreza. My personal experience tells me that the 3 point harnesses were ok in a smash. My car was actually static at the time though. Things may have been different if I were moving at the time....
#27
Originally Posted by Gutmann pug
Is it worth asking why you want to fit them or have you made your mind up no matter what?
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As has been said before, harnesses work as part of a four component safety system - harness rated seat, harness, cage and helmet. If you take one of those away the system is dangerous. If you have all of them then the car is safe.
Steve
PS For track work, I use a Cglock which I find holds me in place really well.
Steve
PS For track work, I use a Cglock which I find holds me in place really well.
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CyprusScooby, you aint been reading what people have put have you
Those CG Locks actually work out cheaper from Demon Tweeks
Those CG Locks actually work out cheaper from Demon Tweeks