I've never had too much confidence in Autocar's performance figures personally.

 

Let's wait for the (more serious) Evo or Car figures...

 

But its heavier and has same power so of course its going to be slower

I doubt Evo figures any different.

 

And what might be wrong with Autocars figures? Their approach to obtaining them seems the most scientific around in all the car mags.

 

Some of those those figues don't make any sense. 0-100 in 16.9 but the 1/4 mile in 14.5????? I don't think so. Any terminal speed given? For a Scoob doing the 1/4 in 14.5 I would say the termainl speed is approx 95mph. Are they saying it take nearly 2 1/2 secs to get from 95-100?
So, what they're basically saying is that the new Scoob is slower. Great.......

Stef.

 

Stef, your spot on.

Standing quarter was 14.5 @ 95 mph

4.1 seconds to get from 90 to 100 mph

(Gear change required at 94 mph)

Yup, its slower all right.

 

I guess Jason Plato was right last night on Driven when he said that it needed more power.

 

It seems that if the new Impreza WRX has 0-60 and 30-70 times of about 5.7-5.8s, the old Turbo about 5.2-5.3s, P1 about 4.7-4.8s then the new one is as much slower than the old one than the P1 is quicker than the old UK turbo. And 2s slower 0-100 seems to be more of a difference than that between the UK turbo and P1. It sounds as though an STI will be necessary to provide the thrills of the old UK turbo.

 

I don't seem to recall Autocar ever testing a 99MY 4 dr. They usually test the 5dr 'cos it's on their fleet. From the figures of the new car, it's going to need the 280PS version to beat the 99MY. Current models, especially P1's and Sti's are sitting pretty right now (in more ways than one!). 150kg's more lardy is a big hit - almost 2 large passengers!!! Think the new model is just more 'prey' for the current model! Joke!

 

Looking at the MY01 at the motorshow today, and the cut aways of the body, engine and running gear, I can see some obvious areas for improvement!

There was no mention of a PPP, but the exhaust system looked even more restrictive than the outgoing model...

To be fair I think that we really need to look back at the first of the UK Impreza's for a comparison, car makers never launch a car that is perfect, they always leave room for improvements so that we really want to buy the latests and greatest each time!

Incidentally I'm glad to see that the bright switch has been more subtly incorporated into the column stalks this time , I wonder if it works in the same way as the old one...

 

I've read the mag. Despite the fact that the new car is slightly slower (inevitable considering its increase in weight and no increase in power), they have raved about its fabulous handling and ride quality. Overall it does seem to be better than the current model, despite its odd appearances.

In the same mag, they have a picture of the new WRC (from the motorshow presumably). Its hard to believe its the same car - its looks miles better. They've suggested that an urgent facelift (to the new road model) is on the cards to match up with the WRC looks. I suspect this is typical Autocar b******t speculation but I hope they're right. The 2002 STi looks very tempting.

D.

 

2 things, safety, enviroment. You guys seem to forget these ARE important more than often. I don't like it being slower, although the difference is smaller than the figures tell because of the improved handling, but safety and enviroment count for the ones we love.

 

One thing to remember with Autocar figures is that they didnt test the two Scoobies on the same day. Once Autocar test a car once the figures stick. So the old one might have been tested on a really cold day on a track with just enough slip/traction for a perfect launch. Not a great comparison.

An example follows in the S3 V6 test with the new Scooby. The figures printed for the other cars date back over a year.

But at least these guys test. EVO or Car rarely do.

Jonathan

 

Kevin

Regarding the urgent facelift, that's Autocar suggesting what we all hope will happen isn't it.

I hope they aren't bull****ting...

 

Just to put a different angle on it. Autocar did tets a 4 door scooby at this years 0-100-0 tests.

The new Scooby is in fact QUICKER to 60 than in that test and the same to 100.

Jonathan

 

AWD - why the issue with Autocar figures...

...they say what kind of petrol they use and what the surface is, what the weather is like (i.e. cold, windy, damp surface...).

And overall the figures they have are comparable to other performance tests.

Let's face it is a heavier car with the same power.

Personally it has grown on me and comments such as I have read regarding coherence of the chassis and the superbly delicate steering (pointy as well) make me want one!

That blue colour is rather nice...

...don't need to worry about being slower tho' if that is an issue I'll get the STi out

R

PS Also just wanted to reflect that Autocar did not just drive the car around the block a bit - they have already done 1500 miles in it and so will have a good feel for how good the car really is.

[This message has been edited by Rannoch (edited 26 October 2000).]

 

GCollier,

Just wondering why you always jump in to defend Autocar (2nd time I've seen you do so from memory). You don't harbour a secret desire to own a Fiat Multipla do you.

 

mmmmmm diesel multipla.....

 

The new model has barely turned a wheel and autocar are already suggesting that it will be getting an urgent facelift?It definitely sounds like the usual Autocar b******t!

 

Rannoch

I don't have a problem with the Autocar figures for the MY01 as I haven't read the article and seen how they did the tests. It's just that on a few occasions in the past their figures have been so far removed from the figures I have seen in other places, that it always makes me wonder why there is such a big difference.

I used to use the Performance Car figures as I trusted that magazine but after they disappeared I have been unsure of the others out there. I read Autocar quite often as they do reviews of cars pretty soon and they are thorough reviews. It's just that sometimes the times in the back have made me wonder.

I'm cautious but then that's just a personal view.

 

I think Autocar tests are thorough - it is their words and research which let them down.

The MY01 doesn't need more power - it needs less weight. All the great cars are light: current Impreza, Integra Type R, 205 GTI, Carrera RS, Westfield etc. It is possible to design a brand new car that meets the latest safety legislation and is light too - it just needs to be a design priority.

 

Whilst successive generations of European cars are getting lighter despite better safety and more passive safety equipment (in recent years at least, examples are Merc S-class, BMW 3 series and Porsche 996), sucessive generations of Japanese cars seems to get heavier and heavier.
A worrying trend indeed.

 

The Impreza is still cheap for a supercar. Lightweight parts cost a lot more to make. That will be a reason, not? And while it's heavier it's having less understeer, that's not bad at all. With the changed gearratio it's not even slower on the 0-60.

 

There is no reason to believe that the 01' cannot be made lighter.

But it is worth mentioning that even if the car did lose 100KG it still might not be a better overall road car. In fact this is a topic that is very debatable. Sometimes added weight can produce a more stable, surefooted, and progressive car- especially in wet conditions.-Any additional commments on this concept would be nice.

In terms of actually making the 01' lighter, just a few words, aluminum, titanium, wheels, etc. Cost- high, light- yes.

 

Just a thought, the new car seems to come with more equipment, air con for one by the look of it, so maybe a lot of the weight gain is here. The old model with air con fiited would be heavier than the book weight everyone is comparing with the new car. Wouldn't it ? As for can it be light and legal, Lotus, TVR, Caterham, Westfield........yeah I know there plastic and rattle.

 

The car used by Autocar for their 0-100-0 test was dying on its feet. If you check through back issues of Car, I can't remember which issue, but they did a road test about 5 months ago where they said they had got a very bad Impreza. Check the number plates and behold it is the same car used by Autocar a couple of months later.
IMHO Subaru put out bad press cars during the last year of the old style Impreza just so the new one would seem better.

NB was a 5 door (had to edit this in as just re-read other post)

[This message has been edited by Robertio (edited 27 October 2000).]

 

The new car may well be as fast, if not faster than the old car. I have heard that, once run in - it excels away from the older car. If you graph rpm vs hp, its not the peak thats going to determine how quick the car is, but the area under the graph. The new car has a better spread of power (say more power at 3000 rpm, even if the peak isnt higher) and this is why it may well be as fast. Anyways - it handles better, stops better etc. My 2 cents

 

Just a query but when do you define a car as being run in? Who do you know that has driven a new Impreza that far?

As for better handling, based entirely on reviews read/seen, it appears that it rides smoother and has less feedback. Cornering speeds may be higher, but if anyone managed to squeeze those tyres onto an old style Impreza I'm sure it would have more grip as well. I thought that part of the enjoyable experience of driving the Impreza was the feedback, which if you take away leaves you with a low cost / poor interiored(sp?) / ugly S3.

 

The MY2001 is a step backwards.

I think when people get the chance to test drive them they will realise what a performance shortfall it suffers from. In standard guise it is 2 seconds slower 0-100. You will notice that on the road, ask any elise owner whos car does 0-100 in a similar time. In simple terms sit a couple of adult passengers in your car and see what a difference it makes. As irrelevent as 0-60 times are, I do not even dump the clutch and get much better times than that. Its not all figures either, its about the way a car feels. I would not like an ounce extra 'refinement' and you cannot take away the fact that the car in present trim looks a minger.

Its so-called better performance in the bends is also a bit of a nonsense. Would they say it was better if the MY2001 was tested against a MY00 fitted with the same wheel and tyre combination. 215 17 like the much rated RB5?

Would I get one, NO WAY. Why, because in its current form it would be a backwards step against my MY99 car.

Also look at the history of the current guise Impreza. In two years the new MY2001 will look outdated by new versions with better seats, handling, power and most certain of all Styling.

So those that say buying a MY00 (a car at the peak of its evolution) is throwing money away because of depreciation, should think about what the MY2001 (Abortion fresh from the bucket) will be worth against its much improved versions when it comes sales time.

The saving grace of the MY2001 is we can all spend a little extra and make it look almost identical to the new WRC car. Roll on Sti