I use this title not because I think the T25 is expensive, but the 'Holy Grail' of Scooby drivers - let me elaborate. (- Ian - sorry wanted to put ' ' marks around your Model name in header - now cant edit!)

What do u guys think of someone like Ian offering alternative high performance Scoobs for the financially challenged?

How would that work? - Simple, with his (and like minded enthusiastic tuners, from herein known as 'they') experience, they could source, check, and correct suitable used Scoobs - eg a good used Spec C, is £10k + shipping etc.

It could then be modded with T25 style suspension improvements and follow similar engine mods to Webby's - the whole 'budget T25' could be put on the forecourt for £19k, incl a fair profit and a packaged annual warranty which would form the other part of the Tuners remuneration. - An astute Tuner could probably do it for £17.5k (see below)

I.e. 'they' source, go through and enhance good used Spec C and similar, adding a genuinely small margin for a non-negotiable selling price. - They then incl a warranty package (which they could sub out if desired) geared to bring in a furthe portion of the desired profit margin. - This gives peace of mind to the customer (vehicle has engine and transmission warranty) and provides Tuner with good rolling, escalating income from warranty packages and servicing.

£17.5-£19k for a warranteed old style T25 substitute anybody?! -- (2 litre so shouldnt affect the used c. £24k value of limited edition 2.5 T25s)

This philosophy can of course be applied to cheaper source cars with lower mods to offer perhaps a £14950 price break (with most profit loaded into warranty) - an 03 Blob WRX or JDM STi would certainly fit this equation, and very soon even an 03 UK STi (one for sale at less than £11k this week)

So basing idea on say 3 models to create 3 distinct price breaks of: £14950, £17495 and £19450 they could become a new 'model line' eg S-Type (hmm, perhaps Ford / Jag might prefer something different..). - To keep sale price to an absolute minimum, the Tuner should also get income from a packaged insurance & finance deal - if done thoroughly, the car itself could be done at Cost or less!

Dealers & Tuners need to recognise that Scoobies not only have a huge potential modders cutomer base, but 80% of those people dont have the funds required for a nice T25,WR1 etc, nor do they want to do all the research and sub out all the mods to various tuners only to be faced with possible future 'nothing to do with me' responses to interlaced mods problems.. - Nor do 90% want to do their own imports without Dealer expertise.

As Dell Boy would say - 'You know it makes sense!'

Everybody gains, nobobody loses and the Scooby market will become re-vitalised.

What do you think guys & Tuners?

 

I agree with you fella i am thinking of setting up my own import business and was thinking along the lines of the above.

From my own personal experiance i think the above is very doable

But i think 17.5k-19.5k with a profit is pushing it.

It's got to be worth while and profitable otherwise it would just be a public service

 

I dont mean to **** in your basket but I belive or have been told (hopefully it is wrong) that prodrive have sorted a deal with subaru japan on the spec-c and hold soul rights to the model reports for this model so if you want to bring one in you have to go through prodrive to get it sva'd. They will do it but it will cost ££££££ hopefully the rumour is wrong can somebody confirm this rumour or dispel it to the bin.

 

you underestimate just how much profit can be wrapped into packaged services such as: drive train warranty, specially arranged insurance, finance etc - £1k / year on a £17k car - i think that is an agreeable return on investment without loading sale price itself with ANY margin...

A 3 yr old c 25k miles approx equivalent to the acredited T25 for c £17k + £600 / yr warranty + competitive insurance, finance & private plate sounds interesting to me...anybody else?

 

Your on the rite track but how many peopel out there would be interested?

 

Can't see a warranty being offered for long on a used import car as quite often the history is not that clear on the car when they are brought over from Japan.

 

Powerstation would do a T25 conversion on your own spec c or any other impreza. Am I missing the point?

 

yep..

 

insurance is simply a mathematical probability equation - everything is insurable - a rate would be negotiated between tuner and Specialist Insurer and then adjusted over time from claims experience.

How many Type C Diffs and gearbox failures have you heard of?

The Tuner would evaluate the condition of the car to the best of his ability, incl JDM history and upgrade accordingly. - Yes there is a small gamble, however as i say it is a rolling mathematical equation, nothing more. - The mechanics are no longer 'made of chocolate' and even taking the absurd notion of 10% needing a full engine rebuild every year - it would still be profitable at suggested £600 / year!

Making sense yet?

 

Why dont you put your ideas in to practice "Type-GRIFF"
I'll even help you with the market research
PM me for the results

 

How many would be interested in a 'T25' type clone for £17k + affordable insurance and warranty + de-aging private plate, - hmm, now let me think....try putting a 'trial ad' in the national Press - just a decent sized ad in Top Marques and Pistonheads for a few weeks should be convincing (Ian?!)

Some people are still asking this much for a std UK Sti!!!

Fully sorted Type C with say 370/370? - Count me in Colonel!!

Go on Ian, 'you know it makes sense' - If project is a success, all I ask is for is the top model on annual updatable loan

 

My Co. is called Ultimate Design, simply because i used to have no end of ideas which were rather, well good really! - Problem is that I get bored soon as I have thought something through...

There was a local 'company' trading from a rented shop back room selling used clothes, which became interested in consumer electronics (our field) - they were more than a little nervous about taking on the cost of the full premises and start a proper business. - Alarms were discussed - I said property alarms would be profitable. - They countered and said ' a new name on the block, how are we going to pull that one off?' - A moments thought and i suggested that they undercut all local established trade on tenders / quotes and re-coup the loss and go on to make a profit through a tied warranty / maintenance contract....

They are now very successful and biggest in the area.

So, the idea is tried and tested - just needs someone with more energy than me to see it into fruition - dont forget my annually renewed 'loan car' though - i dont even ask to own it - fair?

 

One thing you can market test on SNet.

A trait of Scoobynetters is that they love to use the web to shop around for best price. See the daily posts about insurance, finance and parts.

If your package is deconstructed then you are left holding a very expensive baby with no margin in it.

Lots of new cars are sold by Citroen and Ford with this kind of package - are Subaru drivers the same customer base?

I would also test what it would really cost to land a decent Spec C in the UK after shipping, duty, model report hire, SVA, etc. It may be ten grand and you have done your sums, or it may be more, a lot more!

Finally you also need to factor in development time. Say you budget to sell 25 cars per year. You will need to spread the cost of your demonstrator/development hack into those 25 cars. That alone could easily be £1-2,000 a car.

Rannoch

 

You'll also have to factor in breaking a few as if you don't your not testing hard enough lol

350/350 is possible and we already sell quite a few used STI's and Spec Cs in this spec. We can apply our Type-20 kit to any of our twinscroll cars

Good idea though but it's already being catered for all be it with no direct promotion.

Regards

Iain

 

If everybody had a affordable type20 then i think there would be to many subaru's on the road and ti would loose the exclusivity

 

Ian is in far better position than I to comment on realistic landed Type C prices, however it is understandable if he prefers to keep it under his hat.

As for development work - i would say more than enough has been done already. - The AST set-up at cost price has to be one of the best handling enhancement / £ available. - As for 350/350 to 370/370 - this has been reproduced and tested a number of times already. - The Tuner must simply 'cherry pick' the best combination / £

Ian's comment that this sort of thing, may well exist in some of it's elements already is most certainly true. - However perfecting the performance / £ formula, then wrapping it into a complete sales package as outlined above + promoting it is the key to success

 

To be honest this is kind of what I expected you to say.

So what are you offering that any reasonable Snetter cannot organise on his own and therefore get it cheaper?

To quote many a Dragon - what's the business model here?


PS Off the shelf AST is not the same as a well set up car!

PPS Off to Donington now in my Budget 'T25' 20 with 360lbs and 340bhp

 

you are missing the point entirely - I am simply putting forward a formula that would benefit all (if you read it fully) - I am not offering the service.

 

People, people... we are getting ahead of ourselves here in all this sales talk mumbo-jumbo!

Intreeging and fasinating as it is (I mean that honestly - havnt read sumin so in depth and mind boggling for a while) just tell it straight...

I want to sell my Scooby in a yr or 2 and buy a Scooby with 350bhp+/350lbs+ and idealy if I had the money I'd go with a T25 and have an ample 400bhp/400lbs, but I dont have £3million quid so how do I get this in a yr or 2 with say £20k??

No messing about, just tell me where I should spend my money??

 

We'll have to agree to differ then. I can see you are not offering the service - you are describing what you think will work as a service.

The premise is that the 'package'.

I am suggesting that the majority of people in this market, using Snet as an example, will want to deconstruct the package so they can buy each little bit separately and scrape a few pounds of the individual component prices.

If you can get the package components at the right price then you probably could make £1,000 for each vehicle sold - but just to cover salary and premises costs, never mind capital, development and promotion costs, you would have to sell an awful lot of vehicles and you are underwriting the risk of vehicle failure.

That is why I was questioning the underlying business model.

The other challenge of course - is that now that 400bhp it reasonably commonplace I am sure most tuners will agree that irrespective of budget every owner with a Subaru expects this level of tune out the box!

 

Intreeging? Fasinating?

I don't know about you, but I'm absolutely rivvitud.

 

 

hmmm, perhaps we should agree on a common language before we compose the ultimate Scoob / £ ??!!

Re, reverse engineering the package - it couldnt be done economically if the Tuner does his homework right - who here can negotiate commercial rates of borrowing or a warrantee for his own creation along these lines - let alone sourcing all parts at wholesale rates and having the savvy to put it all together.

Then as you say there is the workshop and marketing costs for a new start outfit. - Doesnt apply to Tuners like Ian - he has it all in place and could produce this package and have it reviewed by Barker with an EVO 5 star rating before Christmas - they would fly out the door and not disturb his new or existing T25 market that is 2.5 based.

Who wouldnt be intersted in a T20 style vehicle with 05 T25 performance at less than £15k with rolling warranty and favourable insurance, finance & first class servicing (Tuner could also tie this into his profit model) - ie T20S cost £14500 payable by say £9995 deposit + mthly payments of £299 for 24 mths to include warranty, servicing & balance finance. (Thus providing Tuner with c £2700 to provide 2 yrs routine servicing and any repairs to engine or gearbox, realistically that is just the engine. - The Tuners s/w and servicing should keep that safe anyway) - so c £2k profit + any innitial margin in selling price of £14.5k - quite possibly 20% return on a used car with high turnover of units due to pric, value and performance.

Dont we all gain? - surely a Tuner could sell at least 3 times as many 'T20s' as T20 / T25 sales per year and have a vast increase in public profile and ongoing service income not to mention an exponentially growing customer base / Tuner following..

 

ok I give up - over 5000 contributions on some wally claiming 400 bhp from little more than an exhaust change - here i offer the real thing - and much more for the cost of a used Mondeo and b***er all interest

The conclusion to draw is plain to see - being polite there appears to be a large gathering of daydreamers..............