WHEELSHOP0_0

This may be a stupid question but you will be used to that from me.
I have noticed when new owners post at first and ask for performance upgrade questions they are almost always told that "PPP" is the way to go.
I have driven a few "PPP" cars and a "TSL 333" car and imho the TSL car was far superior is there a reason for the bias towards "PPP" on the forum?

HPLovecraft

I'm no expert but I think PPP is suggested for those who have cars less than 3 years old and wish to keep their warranty, since PPP is a Subaru approved modification. Any other upgrade may invalidate your warranty. If the warranty isn't an issue then the TSL or other conversion is a better bet plus gives you more BHP.

Hope that helps

HPL

RMA26

I know someone who had the TSL333 package & he didn't rate it

IMHO - Custom Re-maps by Andy Forrest, Bob Rawle are a better option

I'm not saying PPP is ****, far from it (I've driven a few PPP cars & they are quick) but as mentioned above - anything other than PPP during the cars warranty will invalidate the warranty

scoobyDAZZA

exactly what HP said

wheel - what car is it MY etc and what is your power goal ?

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Yes, bcause if you go for anything other than PPP you can kiss goodbye to your warranty.

If warranty is not a concern a custom map is definately the way to go!

Ns04

WHEELSHOP0_0

Thanks HPL, cou[ple of things tho. it seems that everyone classics/bugs/early blobs etc. are pointed towards PPP and even if your car is new/warranty you can still fit TSL or equiv. as the warranty will cover parts not involved in the upgrade and the upgrade co. will warranty the parts which are covered. I know if you ask some dealers will say that the warranty is invalidated by aftermarket company upgrade but I think as long as you use reputable Co. with quality parts the warranty must still be valid (I think this is the law) and cannot be waived by a manf. I seem to remember a Govt. changed the law to prevent Manf. from forcing peaple to use only dealers for servicing etc.
Maybe someone on here knows for sure?

RMA26

What he said!

Some custom maps actually increase fuel economy too!

The mapper can dial in more boost on a custom map, plus give you both better BHP & Torque figures

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Yep!

Fundamentally, PPP is a generic map: all cars get the same! Problem is, not all cars are the same! Consequently, PPP suits some very well, others show little gains. A cutom map is tailored to your car specifically.

Ns04

WHEELSHOP0_0

Cheers for the replies guys, Dazza it was just a general enquiry not related to my car in particular,and wondered why the ppp bias, seems to be warranty related and I still think this might be misinformation ref. invalid cover.
While I agree as to custom mapping (my last car 387+) AF had a hand in that one, it is not suitable/possible/affordable for everyone.
I just wondered for the cost £1.5k £2kish why the bias was there.
ps still looking for my next car, dont know what to buy yet.

GazTheHat

Exactly!

And PPP = retain warranty.

PPP £1800-2000

TSL £1600
Powerstation £1350+vat
(*both the two above include some kind of warranty)

Own route £1000

It depends on what is important for you. Warranty, power, future modifications etc.

Mikez

Guys,
As a newbie I am a little puzzled about the upgrades you are all talking about. My STi has had the Prodrive upgrade, what are these other ones being discussed, eg. PPP and TSL?

rgds,
Mikez

StiX

iTrader: (4)

PPP is the Prodrive upgrade - Prodrive Performance Pack.

TSL is a company that offers their own 'performance pack' upgrade.

http://www.tsl-motorsport.co.uk/news...0002&detail=45

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Basically you have an upgrade package specified and mapped by Prodrive. Everyone gets the same equipment, what is it for the Sti, sports cat DP, deact centre and uprated fuel pump and a generic map.

Other companies e.g. Powerstation will offer a similar package, most packages at this stage of tune consist of the same mods essentially, ie.e exhaust fuel pump and ECU remap. The main difference is that you get a generic re-map with the PPP, other companies like PS cutom map the ECU to your specific car. They will also offer more extensive tuning packages, stage 2 etc....

Ns04

GazTheHat

Custom & generic being the appropriate words.

Which can equate to anything around 30-40bhp and similar torque.

crazyman1979

I own a TSL333 and have driven a few PPP cars, the TSL package is deffo much better, and as far as warranty goes ive had my car into subaru 3 times since i bought it (with the TSL package) for warranty work and not one comment about the 333 on the back, all work carried out under warranty, although not engine work.

Im not sure how you could 'not rate' the TSL package but i guess that depends what your acustomed to, okay its not monster power but mine made 320bhp on the rollers in the middle of summer on a RR where eveyones figures where well down, far better than the ppp would make.
At least with the TSL it does what it says on the tin.

Interested to know about the powerstation options though, sounds good...

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Indeed, as importantly though, it can mean the difference between a big safety margin and the car running a bit too close to the edge!

Ns04

reano

iTrader: (2)

A few month back I asked the same question re mods and warranty and the end of it was it's legally not clear basically PPP keeps 'all' your warranty and at best the other upgrade paths can offer is you lose some. I took the risk about six months ago and had no problems. I have also had rear suspension changed under warranty (even though I've had my handling setup changed by Powerstation). My warranty runs out the end of this month. For me the difference between PPP and a custom mod is night and day and well worth it. has anyone here had well known mods e.g. from the likes of Scoobyclinic, Powerstation, TSL, WRC technologies and then found somthing was wrong that they couldn't claim through the warranty?

WHEELSHOP0_0

bttt for evening opinions

scoobyDAZZA

what else do you need to know

?????????????????????????????

everyone has said the same thing

WHEELSHOP0_0

What I wanted to know was is the option of TSL or equiv. covered or not under warranty( not "I know a chap who's brothers pal said it was'nt") or if the law applies to these too?
Anyone KNOW for sure? cheers

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Subaru wont cover it, thats for sure as you have taken their (note their) car out of its factory specification.
TSL may give you a 1 year warranty, though your best looking on their website to see what they offer in this area

Tony

PS think its www.tsl-motorsport.co.uk

GazTheHat

It will void your warranty.....But if say, your battery goes, or the struts knock. The conversion should have no effect on those parts going and be replaced by a friendly dealer. Talking from experience, not from a pal of a pal's brother.

WHEELSHOP0_0

Cheers