Well, what a great 30th birthday I had!
It turns out that a turbo wasn't the only thing to break on CK1 last week, as number three bearing once again decided to fail.
My engine is only 10,000 miles old, and was changed by Subaru under warranty after the bearings went last time.
Several possible causes for the failure have been banded around for ages; the most popular being problems with oil surge, oil temp, and the infamous oil pressure regulator problems. It is the last one that I am concerned with, as after explaining the events leading up to my engine's demise to several people, the oil pressure reg was the only thing suggested by everyone as being possibly responsible.
I am now of the belief that the MY98 engines as a whole are suffering as a result of a fault with this component. It cannot be a co-incedence that MY98 engines are suffering from piston slap and no.3 bearings letting go
left, right and centre. There must be a link.
When my engine was changed four months ago I asked what had been done to prevent the same thing happening again. "Nothing", was the answer. It seems IM are content to simply fit a new short block and leave it at that, without even bothering to look at possible causes or rectify the problem.
Most owners of MY98 Imprezas probably won't have done the mileage I have, or perhaps driven the car as hard, but for crying out loud this is a Subaru we're talking about! Winner of trillions of awards for reliability and the like. God help IM when MY98 owners get their JD Power questionnaires that's all I can say!
Anyway, going back to my original question I need as many examples of MY98 engine failures or exchanges as possible. UK, import, whatever.
I already have a sizeable list from a number of sources, but I need more.
Please mail me with any known examples and brief details, were you the owner of a 98 car that has any engine problems? Do you know someone who has?
Thanks in advance for any help.

Stef.

 

Buy a cossie!!

Sorry but had to say that, it should still be under some sort of warrenty if its only 4 months old.

 

Warranty ends at 60,000 miles...PERIOD!!

Stef.

 

Even on an engine rebuild, thats a bit sh!te aint it, thought you'd get at least a year, to say these scoob's should be reliable i think thats not the case, you lot seem to have more reliability problems than a cossie owner and thats a tall order.

Why don't you spend some money and make it faster!!!

Steve

 

A possibilty, but I liked it the way it was.

Stef.

[This message has been edited by Stef (edited 20 November 2000).]

 

Hard luck mate, its a bitch when the car gets taken off the road, especially when it is accompanied with expense

Am I right in assuming 97 model cars shared the same engine as 98 model cars? I had a 97 which had the short block changed. Perhaps you need to look at a wider scope mate.

Good luck, I hope you sort it out with the minimal amount of fuss.

Cem

 

sorry to hear the bad news Steff,

Hope you get it sorted without too much hassle.

Jon ...10 weeks and still no car

PS pooh loads of gauges still didn't save you

 

I thought that usually, when parts are replaced, the replaced parts are warranted for several months ?

My local mechanic guarantees his parts and labour so are you saying that Subaru don't ?

(F*rds used to do a lifetime guarantee on parts IIRC)

For only 4 months, I think you'd have a good case in court that the engine was faulty. Try writing the dealer a letter threatening court action ! If this doesn't work, try a solicitor.

If you bought a TV and it blew up after 4 months, you'd expect a replacement surely ?

Sorry to hear the bad news.

Kevin.

 

Hmmm..

Turbo failure AND big ends shot? Sounds like an oil supply problem to me.

I'd say that the dealer didn't diagnose the problem and sort it out. I wonder if the oil pump/pressure reg was new, or did they refit the original one?. Did they test oil pressure?

Some more questions to be answered I think.

Good luck getting it sorted out.

Cheers,

Alex

 

Put me down for exactly the same thing, in an MY99. No mystery about the failures Stef. It's an inadequate oil feed to the no.3 bearing. A great source of income for engine shops everywhere. All short block engines will suffer the same problem given enough stick. One of the Dutch guys had the same problem on the way TO the 'ring on the Sunday the last time that we were out there. I don't understand how you and your dealer could have thought that only the turbo had gone, mine made one hell of a knocking noise that was clearly related to the crank's motion. What were your symptoms?

It would be nice if Subaru would sort out their own problems but I think that you will have to sort this one out yourself. Good luck if you decide to go that route. That will mean taking it to a GOOD engine builder and having the block machined in whatever way is necessary. If you buy a new block, can I have your old one? I left mine in Germany, but would be interested in looking at ways to improve the oil supply to the no.3 bearing. Or maybe if you're rebuilding your block, get a two-for-one deal with the learning costs on how to design the oil system properly. Then I can get mine re-engineered too. Alternatively, we could go and buy old (pre-'98) Japanese engines which don't appear to go pop quite so easily. Might as well buy the gearboxes too!

 

Stef, like Tony said, it's not only MY98, it's MY99 as well. Another Dutch guy had the same 2 months ago, and he never touched the car (bog standard), never did trackdays, and appears to drive pretty "normal". I know of 2 other Dutch guys as well.

Most knowledgable guys over here are convinced it is surely an oil problem (temporarily no oil getting to n°3). We are investigating the causes on our own (together with a few Subaru dealers, believe it or not), and we now will have our oils lab-tested in the near future. It might not just be oil pressure, but the oil film getting too thin.

We are now at the point where:

1. We deliberately overfill our oil (just a tad over normal)
2. We are looking at "thicker" oils like Castrol 10W60 (ideal would be something like a 5W50), especially when doing trackdays
Some dealers appear to even use 0w30, which is really not good enough for the Scoob. Others use 0w40, which would alledgedly still be on the thin side.

Another suggestion that has been made: replace oil at least every 4000 miles... most UK cars suffer badly from overfuelling, and that fuel might mix up with the oil, deluting it.

It could also be an inherent problem to the design of the block though; in that case, small measures (like above) might lessen the chance, but will never cure the problem.

Last thing: it appears to happen after about 40.000 miles (or more), hence why you hear more reports from MY98 than MY99...

I'm not an expert, so read the above with the grains of salt needed, but I'm glad we are finally gonna MEASURE something: we are starting with our oils.

To be continued ...

 

My Swiss Subaru dealer talled me that Subaru ordered them to use 10W30 oil because others were too thin and could cause problems in the future...

Laurent

 

Stef,

I am sure you have some comeback on IM here and if you push hard enough you'll get what you want in the end, I should know! The fact is that the repair they did under warranty was not adequete, the engine would have lasted more than 10k miles if it was. They cannot walk away from this and make sure they don't. The original fault was reported while under warranty and this is a continuation of that fault so it is still covered.

Write to the MD at IM (Sam Burton) and he will pass it on to John Sherwood.

Give 'em hell!


Otis.

 

Otis seems to hit the nail on the head, 10k engine and not finding the fault in the first place is nutts.

 

guys, i have been saying this for a LONG time now, but you dont seem to want to listen.

When you are running on track days and driving hard with a turbo engine, the oil used by your dealers will burn, it simply isnt good enough to withstand the heat.

It breaks down very quickly and looses a huge amount of its viscosity, bearing pick up is just a matter of time.

I have also been saying that you should change your oil after EVERY track day you do.

I dont think you really apreciate the punishment you are metering out on these cars! A normal race for example in UK motorsport lasts just 10 laps plus 10 laps for qualyfying. You're doing one hell of a lot more than that on a track day.

I am very sorry to hear this stef, push IM for a replacement as the repair you had should be warantied for 12 months IMHO.

But please people, if you are going to drive on track, stop using $HIT oil and get it changed as a matter of course after every track day, along with a new filter.

 

Hi John,

Not wishing to take this into a small oil jihad and detract from the purpose of the thread: what would you recommend for oil?

 

Steff

My MY98 goes in next week for the short block oil pump due to piston number 3 knocking and now it sounds like the bottom end is on it's way out the car has done 53k, it might be worth finding out if the oil pump was changed when your motor was or if this is something they are doing now as a further problem has been found. My dealer told me that there was to be a replacement piston for number 3 instead of a short motor but if the bottom end is going you wont get away with a piston change it’s still going to be a full motor.

Darren.

 

There are just 2 oils i would put in my engine. (when my brain is working!!!)

In all my fast road/track cosworths i use Castrol RS 10/60, costs about £25 a fill, ideal for turbo charged high performance cars. You can buy it from Halfords much cheaper than Demon Tweeks for example.

In the groupA rally car that runs anti-lag etc, in other words very hot turbo, I use Motul 300V Competition 15/50.

This is the oil a large proportion of the WRC and GroupA Escort Cosworths run in UK Rallying. Dont spill it on the floor, its slippy as hell.

As a side note, i have just paid the price for making a stupid mistake on oil myself.
Some of you may remember me having a problem at the nurburgring, where i basically emptied my sump of oil.

When i got home and repaired the car i filled it with some 0/40 oil i had in the garage, just to check i hadnt knackered the engine.

Sadly, with having a hectic week prior to the CIN do at donington and RR run at Powerstation, i forgot to replace it with my usual Castrol RS.

Result..... One knackered Turbo, stripped it yesterday, the turbo shop guys couldnt believe how burned the oil was in the bearing and how hot the shaft had become.

Luckily they replaced it for me at cost, which was still £240 down the drain.

Use decent Oil guys, its the most important component in your engine.

 

Hi Stef

I have a My98 and my car keeps developing (4th time now) a fault where there is a complete lack of power as if the turbo is not even attatched to the engine! It has happened again and is booked in for Wednesday to be sorted.

It does not seem as bad this time and is more obvious in higher gears, for example, 70mph in 5th gear, slam on the gas and nothing happens.

This is really annoying me as the dealer doesn't seem to be able to say what the problem is from it's previous visits and the warranty ends in March, so what happens if it develops the fault again!!?? Am I expected to pay!!!

Phil

 

Fully support Jons comments regarding trackday/ roadcar lack of compatibility longterm, they obviously will not take it as is being proven.
It should be fairly easy to prove/ disprove the oil pump regulator pressure theory. Assuming the Scoob one works on the same principle as the ones we use at work:
1.Remove spring check for damage, wear, abrasion to spring, ball, seat etc..
2.Measure spring free length, compare to manufacturers figures, too short and hey presto low pressure.
3.If 1 and 2 are correct then as far as I see it the regulator is not at fault
I know this is very simplified and am sure Pete C or Firefox will flatly disprove this, but that is a Hydraulics engineers (simplistic) view.
I wish you luck Stef as we're on engine No.2 ourselves, only done 3K since change though.The pump and all related ancillaries are changed as a matter of course at the same time, allegedly.
Regards
Warren

[This message has been edited by WAL (edited 21 November 2000).]

 

John,
Is Castrol RS 10W60 still available? Halfords etc seem to be stocking a 0W40 version of Castrol RS now.

I've been thinking of putting Motul in my car at the next service, is there any reason why you only use it in competition cars and not in your Westfield? It works out cheaper to buy Motul than Castrol RS or Mobil 1 Motorsport.

Stef,
Sorry to hear the bad news. Were you still running CK1 with Valvoline Racing 20W 50 ? As this is a mineral oil and not a synthetic it could have contributed to the engine failure. Do you have any comeback from a supplier or whoever used this oil at your last service?

 

Now I'm worried!!!! or should I be?????
I have started to notice a ticking type noise when the engine is warm and on idle tickover speed. What is it and should I get it checked, please help someone.

 

<B>i have been saying this for a LONG time now, but you dont seem to want to listen </B>

Don't get your knickers in a twist John , we are definitely listening, believe you me...

The guy that has been tuning our cars over here on the continent advices us to use something like ... Castrol 10w60. You are giving us the same advice. Dumb people like me start to listen when they hear this from two sides

What I didn't know was that it would be even better to change oils after every track day. Makes sense to me, and I for one will follow that advice.

Theo

PS: did you ever hear the name "Kendall" oil ?

 

sorry theo

It just pi$$es me off when i talk to people at track days and ask what they are using, and get the reply, "its what the dealer fits". Not bloody good enough!!

sorry, but i am sick of seeing cars being damaged when there is no need. I need a chill pill

When will people learn that track driving is NOT the same as driving on the road.

I use Castrol RS for two main reasons, firstly its very easy to get hold of at short notice and it works better from cold.

I occasionally drive it on the road and always to track days, it suits the aplication better. This is mainly because i have hydraulic cam followers in the car and they pump up better from cold with Castrol.

If i was running the car purely on track and had solid cam followers i would use Motul in the westie also.

simple reasons, motul is a better oil for really tough use, but castrol works well in the arena i am using the westfield.

 

oh, heard of kendal, never used it and dont know anyone who does.

doesn't mean its no good, just no experience of it.

 

Is Castrol RS 10W60 still available in your neck of the woods then?

Halfords, Motorworld and Charlie Brown all stocked it but only have the 0W40 now.

Aldon Automotive can supply Motul for £15.50 per 2 litre pack, is this about right or do you know of somewhere cheaper?

 

Not totaly sure that I'm right here, but doesn't the oil feed for the Turbo come from the same feed as No. 3 bearing?

Was having a long e-mail discussion earlier today with Pat about uprating a scoob engine, and one of the things we discussed was an independant feed for the Turbo...has this been tried? Would this be the answer?

Please before Pat and I go and blow up an engine for the sake of science

Incidentally Stef, if you want some new forms of evidence on the state of the internal oil ways let me know, I have some rather special 'tools' at my disposal

 

Stef,
a friend of mine recently blew up his UK wagon, which is an n plate on about 65k full subaru history.

he complained directly to the main dealer + to subaru and they paid for all parts, he just paid labour.

Gotta be worth a try mate, especially when you consider how old his was.

 

price sounds about right. Tweeks sell it at £14.66 plus vat.

Not bought any Castrol for a month or so now, hope halfords havn't stopped selling it.

no idea on the oil feed from 3 feeding the turbo, not got that close into a scoob engine myself.

We did a similar thing on a race 5 litre V8, where the last main was the week link, we drilled and tapped externally into the back of the block and ran an aeroquip external feed to the back of the main bearing journal, so its fed from both ends.

This was mainly because we knew this was a week link and the engine was to be used in FIA GT 4 hour races, so worked very hard.

 

John, Pat's idea, and I agreed with him, was to try to use an electric pump to feed the turbo from another feed/new feed with a small resovior, also not abad idea for a turbo timer...maybe one for the 'project'

I expect Pat and I will make use of some of my work toys in the near future...I knew this job would have some merit, other than money