phil739

iTrader: (30)

at the min my uk classic has got a sports cat and a cone air filter , am looking into buying a fmic

do i need to have a remap or will it be ok without


of course i know i would benifit from having a remap to get the best from the mods , but just for the time being would it be ok ..

also what sort of money are you looking at for remaps

cheers phil

rigga

iTrader: (4)

Best to have it remapped if fitting a front mount,your ecu can be mapped with ecutek software at a cost of roughly £600-£700 depending on who does it,the major part of that cost is the licence needed to acess te ecu,any mappig done after the inital one will be considerably cheaper once the licence is purchased

pslewis

And remember, if you use a different fuel pump at your petrol station you will need a re-map again

Of course you don't need a re-map just because you have moved your intercooler ......

What will happen? The air will be cooler and therefore more dense ...... just the same as going from Summer to Autumn .... need a re-map every season? Course you don't!

This is from my Experienced Engineering mind and is my opinion.

rigga

iTrader: (4)

Whatever pete...... as previously noted,25,000 posts,prob a handfull of any use

phil739

iTrader: (30)

so how many people have them fitted without a remap , would it cause any problems with out one

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

My other half has one fitted, along with other mods, I think it's been on just over a year there or there abouts, without it blowing it up (touch wood).

pslewis

Think about what is happening - the reason for moving the IC is to gain extra cooling.

Just like the effect from a hot summers dry day to a misty winters damp evening.

Do you re-map to take account of weather changes, of course you don't, so forget it and enjoy it - put your £500 back in your pocket!!

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

no dis-respect pete, but il go with the namy tuners on here (the geuine professionals, not the wannabes) who advise a remap for a fmic.

i can see your point re. just cooler air, but there must be a good reason for said tuners to advise remaps for mods like this.

all imho.

RAMP

For what its worth ran my wrx for 6 years with a decat,Custom air intake and cone filter,Reversed inlet manifold and with an uprated fuel pump all on the standard ECU without any issues.I may well have just been lucky though.

WRX_Dazza

not to mention being possibly robbed of power and efficiency.

its well worth it. (obviously depending on your choice of mapper)!!

good luck

pslewis

There is a very good reason for tuners to advise tuning work to be done - if you haven't heard the phrase 'vested interest' then I shall not bore you will the mechanics of it.

You mentioned 'It's just cooler air' and you are quite right - it's EXACTLY the same as going from a dry summers day to a damp winters morning - I would be surprised if even the most gullible would think a re-map is needed for that.

I have no reason to say that a re-map is not needed other than offering my Engineering mind to the debate and to assist the questioner find an answer ................. the Tuners have their own agendas, of course.

But, everyone should do what they believe to be correct - my own opinion is that a re-map is not needed because of a seasonal change in temperature.

Slick81

iTrader: (1)

Just a quickie mate, bear in mind that if your not gona be pushing beyond approx 340BHP you dont really need a FMIC. Speak to one of the main tuners if your not sure e.g Andy Forrest, Pavlo (Zen) or JGM. But the money ur gona spend on a front mount could be spent on making your car quicker with supporting mods which these guys can advise you on and do it safely. But, if your gona get a front mount fitted anyway, get the re - map otherwise its just a wasted mod.

fraser87uk

Im not sure who im siding with on this one but you can put a FMIC on golf 1.8t's, silvias, skylines, supras etc without a remap needed. So why is one needed on an Impreza?

I can maybe see why one is needed for the increase in length of pipe work compared to said skylines etc. But pslewis has a point about the winters/summers day thing. Except in winter if you have a fmic it will be really really cold.

In my view, (and it is by no means an expert opinion), i think you could fit and run a fmic and not have it mapped, but you would not be getting the full potential of such a good modification, and it also depends on your driving style.

RAMP

Power wasnt a problem as by increasing the thermal efficiency over that of standard you would expect a noticeable increase, This cooler running temperature made it very reliable.

phil739

iTrader: (30)

so bassically it sounds like pslewis has a point ..
so i can either suck it and see what happens or go the hole hog and get fmic , change turbo and gearbox and then get a remap

thanks for all you help , hope i havent started world war 3..

think its time to save , in the mean time am i ok spraying my tmic to tart it up abit

cheers everyone

vindaloo

You've changed the exhaust as well if your "my scooby" is anything to go by. If you're running just the one cat you have greatly reduced the resistance to breathing.

Whilst I think it won't immediately blow up, you are not running the car to its full potential either for power, economy or refinement. I recall old arguments regarding MY2000 cars not performing as well as MY1999 cars due to the ECU revisions. 801 vs 802 series ECUs or something like that.

If you've not got one, get a boost gauge and review what happens when you floor it in a reasonably high gear. I'm betting that boost will spike way over what is normal. Repeat this enough times and something can give way. Even if it is merely a boost pipe.

J.

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

pete, i really hope by your responce that you are not questioning the integrity, and indeed the honesty of the tuners and professionals who would disagree with your remap theories. ive highlighted the two examples of which i believe this to be the case above in red.

im not looking for a debate, which then runs on and on, spoiling this thread, but again, you have your opinion about it not being necessary, and i have mine.

dunx

iTrader: (3)

My engineering head says that PSL is right....
My wallet says I aint willing to risk my engine !

Mine ran about 285 bhp before the re-map 340 bhp after with no extra fuel consumption....so "wasted" 65 bhp.

IMHO

DunxC

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

55

phil739

iTrader: (30)

yeah both cats have been removed and it now has a straight through pipe with a sports cat on , also a k n cone air filter

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Phil as per my response in your other thread, you don't need an FMIC at your level of mods.

If your car hasn't already been mapped for your mods, you should get it don'e, as you'll get sub-optimal gains from them as it stands.

Ns04

help2003

iTrader: (1)

So if i take my car back to the place it got remapped before i bought it, it wont cost me as much, as they have done it before?

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

If the car has been mapped ANYWHERE previously with Ecutek, then it has the license so a remap will be cheaper whomever you take it to, as they don't have to charge you the license fee for the software.

Ns04

pslewis

Lets get something straight ... a re-map on a STANDARD car would (or should) show an improvement in BHP - the engine will be more unreliable, but any decent mapper can squeeze extra BHP out of the standard engine.

So, when you modify the car - by whatever means - you may extract more power ...... the following re-map will be sold as increasing that power still further - but you have absolutely no baseline to compare it to!

Therefore, who knows what the mods added and what the re-map added (which it could have added anyway on the standard engine)?

Simply moving the IC does not, repeat does not, require a re-map .... to say otherwise is showing a complete lack of Engineering Knowledge.

But, as I said above, it is up to the individual concerned whether they believe the scare stories and hype over solid Engineering principles. I am simple here to give the educated viewpoint, take it or leave it.

phil739

iTrader: (30)

how do you know if it has been remapped before ??

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Anyone with Ecutek software, i.e. any mapper can tell you.

Ns04

dunx

iTrader: (3)

LOL c.o.b. I was good at maths once.....

but once past 400 bhp it's sod all is it ?

DunxC

mikey2

iTrader: (1)

I have to agree in principle with pete, i cannot see why a fmic would require a remap, at the end of the day you still have the same air coming in, be it colder, than before. Seeing as, as far as i know, there is nothing in the intercooler to say how cold the air is the engine must have some way of determining the density to compensate the fuelling after it has been through the intercooler.
I might be totally wrong, but i dont think so right now.

phil739

iTrader: (30)

think its just best to leave it and get the spray can out and tart the tmic up , until i can afford a remap

just 1 more question ..
as i already got a sports cat and induction kit , would you get a remap first before fitting a fmic or after to save going back again

thanks phil

scooby-tc

iTrader: (2)

its the same air but 4 or times as much therefore the ecu has to calculate the amount of extra fuel needed via MAF to ensure safe running.Without the extra fuel the car will run lean at higher rpm,unless you plan on driving it off boost all the time