Borat_Drives_A_Scooby

After 5 rallies where did you realistically expect the new subaru world rally car to be in relation to the Ford and Citroen world rally cars ?

To be honest i am very dissapointed with what i have seen so far of the new rally car as it seems to be around 2 mins 30 secs to 3 mins off the pace, thats an eternity in rallying.

After 5 rallies i would have expected it to be a lot more competetive than it is, the only way the new car can make a podium at the min is through retirements, i can`t put my finger on it but i have no confidence with this new car at all.

Yes its still being developed at the min but i wouldn`t mind having a bet that Prodrive and Subaru are dissapointed with the early pace of the car or should i say lack of it.

v8voodoo

Is it just the car..?

Atkinson seems to be giving it full beans and getting somewhere, but Petter.... what's he doing..??

I was hoping to see them mixing it up in the top 4/5 every rally, but sadly it's not happening.

eversham

iTrader: (14)

think they need much more time to develop it tho, the citreon has been out for 2 seasons now and the focus i think.

marmski

I thought it would be much better than it is, especially with all the hype that was made over the new shape.

2008 Results To Date:

Rally/Fastest Subaru/Time from Winner
Old Car
Monte Carlo = Atkinson - 2:58:06 from Loeb (Citroen)
Sweden = Solberg - 2:59:04 from Latvala (Ford)
Mexico = Atkinson - 1:06:01 from Loeb (Citroen)
Argentina = Atkinson - 2:33:02 from Loeb (Citroen)
Jordan = Atkinson - 4:59:05 from Hirvonen (Ford)
Italy = Atkinson - 5:08:06 from Loeb (Citroen)
Average Distance from Winner = 3mins 28secs

New Car
Greece = Solberg - 1:09:05 from Loeb (Citroen)
Turkey = Solberg - 2:48:20 from Hirvonen (Ford)
Finland = Atkinson - 3:17:00 from Loeb (Citroen)
Germany = Solberg - 2:35:30 from Loeb (Citroen)
New Zealand = Solberg - 2:38:09 from Loeb (Citroen)
Average Distance from Winner = 2mins 49secs

Now the interesting thing (and i dont want to start a conspiracy theory - well maybe i do ) is that if you take away the last 2 races of the old car then the average distance they were behind the winner was only 2mins 40secs meaning it was actually closer than they are now (albeit 9 secs, however its the difference between the Fords and Citroens most of the time).

Conspiracy Question: Did they slow the old car before they retired it so the new one looked better?

It also shows that Atkinson was better in the old car, and Solberg is actually the faster in the new. You could put this down the fact that Solberg has been testing this for the early part of the season aswell, meaning he not only has more experience in the car but also perhaps was a little 'rusty' in the early season old car.

Question: Are either Solberg or Atkinson just not as good as Loeb and Hirvonen?
Question: Is the car not as good as the Ford or the Citroen?
Question: Is it perhaps a combination of both? (likely answer IMO)



How about they convince Gronholm he should drive a scoob next season and see how he does? He was about the closest thing Rally had to the awesome talent of Loeb.

n one

iTrader: (5)

I expected it to be just where it is, being minuites off the pace of Loeb while struggling to stay in the points, or on the road.

SWRT need a couple of decent drivers, then the Impreza will be faster. Solberg hasn`t got what it takes anymore, Atko never had what it takes and never will have

bigkid

iTrader: (1)

I don't think the subaru is anywhere near as fast as the ford or citreon but each team has it's day,I can't understand why subaru stick to the same drivers year after year? I personally think solberg isn't what he was and it would help subaru to find a new lead driver to help push things on

Rob_Impreza99

iTrader: (3)

I agree with the above about Petter Solberg and Chris Atkinson, Petter is one of the nicest guys you could wish to meet but i don`t think he is driving anywhere near as good these days as he was a few years back, i also think that Chris Atkinson won`t make it as a potential top flight driver that is capable of taking Subaru forward.

Their just isn`t the quality of drivers around these days like their was when we had the likes of Makinen, Kankunen, Vatenen, Auriol, Sainz and Colin McRae etc, apart from Sebastien Loeb and Mikko Hirvonen i think the rest are a much of a much. As for the car, i think it needs a lot more than a top driver.

Mackers

Ready and rearing for the 6th

Blind Side

Never mind the drivers, if it carries on like this they will have to change the shape again! Anyone for a blobeye hatchback?
Incidentally I think Chris Atkinson has the ability to win on his own merit given the time and a decent car.

justin price

i spoke to David lapworth at the gathering,asked him how the rally had gone on,he said not good.then someone said why are they not as fast as the Fords..his reply was ask Petter Solberg WHY ?..didnt seem very happy

n one

iTrader: (5)

Given time, so does Matt Wilson

phil_wrx

iTrader: (2)

well got told off one of our ford rally wagon drivers that subaru are bringing a customer team out next year and henning solberg is supposed to be driving it.
also that the subaru is worrying a few in the service areas as it is getting better through the testing period which this season is

Blind Side

Testing period?? I was under the impression that the new shape WRC had been in development for the past 18 months. Surely a team with the experience, funding & reputation that Subaru obviously have cannot be daft enough to compete with a car that is not up to the mark.

mickp

iTrader: (1)

Would have to agree that i expected the hatch to be pushing a little harder. Whilst we currently have good drivers i personally don't feel we have outstanding drivers and that is always going to be an issue.

Loeb to Subaru would be nice.

SPEN555

I thought there were a number of changes to regs which meant the WRC had to take more components from the showroom cars coming in next year. The Impreza is already at this spec I think whereas as the other manufacters need to do changes. So Subaru are just developing it this season and hopefully they will be ahead next year. Seems more likley pigs will fly when you see the results though.

Borat_Drives_A_Scooby

And you can bet your bottom dollar that both Citroen and Ford will be ahead of Subaru next year, i can`t put my finger on it but something isn`t right with the set up of the Subaru WRC team and all that bickering with the Lapworth saga a few years back adds spice to its not been running smoothly for a fair while. I think the subaru rally team should maybe have a break from Prodrive and look for another motorsport set up to run their cars, its not been working for a while now so out with the old and in with the new.

ScoobyDoo555

At the risk of being infracted, perhaps it's just that the Subaru isn't a winning marque anymore. Yes, it's competitive (just), and the percieved poor performance might be due to the driver line up, BUT I do think that the rest of the pack have caught up.....

As has also been proven on the roads - Subaru set the standard, of which nearly everybody has caught up and in some cases, surpassed.

Dan

phil_wrx

iTrader: (2)

they have openly said that they will develope the car all season

Borat_Drives_A_Scooby

What else did you expect them to say ? Saying the above is the standard get out clause in motorsport just incase things don`t go as planned, what other thing was you expecting them to say that this car will take the WRC by storm ?

Granby

iTrader: (5)

Has the new car done 5 rallies yet, i thought it had only done 3 Finland, Germany & New Zealand

Oskar

iTrader: (1)

It has done both Acropolis and Turkey too.

Borat_Drives_A_Scooby

Seeing as the new impreza wrc brought such a big debate before the car was launched i thought their would have been far more opinions than have been posted, maybe some are just too embarrassed to post after they gave the new car such a big up before it made its debut and now its performing like a reliant robin with a puncture.

D6ale

iTrader: (1)

SWRT confirm M2 team for 2009 season

Mads Ostberg will compete in one of the Adapta-run Impreza WRC2008s
The Subaru World Rally Team has confirmed that it will run a second manufacturer team for the 2009 WRC season.

The team will be run by the Adapta World Rally Team, run by Team Principal Morton Ostberg. Initially, the deal is for Adapta to run two Impreza WRC2008s at the ten European events, with an option on the long-hauls to Argentina and Australia.

Norwegian Mads Ostberg, the 2007 Norwegian Rally Champion, has been confirmed as one of the seats in the newly formed team, with Adapta still searching for a second driver.

“The agreement will see the AWRT use two Subaru Impreza WRC2008s next year as an M2 team and we will look after the cars on the 10 European events” said Team Principal Ostberg. “We also have the option of competing on the two overseas events. SWRT will be responsible for the logistics and AWRT will look after the cars on the events.

“The cars will be serviced adjacent to the SWRT service area. Adapta and SWRT will share their technical expertise and parts knowledge to form a common pool of knowledge, with the AWRT engineers focusing on our cars during events.”

Mads Ostberg will also contest the Norwegian Rally Championship next year in his Subaru Impreza WRC2007.

I would like to see SWRT give Guy Wilks a chance next year

BMWhere?

OK, firstly Subaru has a lower budget than both Ford and Citroen. Ford and Citroen both run 3 cars at each event while Subaru only run 2. Ford and Citroen both run a B team, Ford with 3 cars, Citroen with 2 cars. So in total for each rally, Ford have 6 cars, Citroen have 5 cars compared to just 2 from Subaru. Thats a hell of a lot more development time.

Having asked Petter personally on rally Germany how the development was going, he was very, very positive about the new car and there is still a lot to come. As for why they're not quite as fast as maybe they would hope to be, the answer was simply the dampers - I won't quote Petter directly, but needless to say he wasn't impressed. As a result, since the beginning of August, Prodrive have taken over damper development from BOS, but its going to take time for Prodrive to make improvements.

The B team next year will be a big step forward in terms of development testing and hopefully Prodrive will have sorted the damper problems by the end of this season.

As for the drivers, there is no question here IMHO. Chris is getting better and better all the time - Hirvonen got the same criticism when he was a Subaru and look what happened when he moved to Ford! Petter is a proven fast driver and is currently 1 of only 2 world champions in the whole field.

Subaru have made a huge leap forward with the new car, but given how far behind the old car was, there is still a long way to go, I wouldn't expect consistent victories to be possible until mid next season given the current situation, although maybe Rally GB this year could be a strong chance for a 1st win!

n one

iTrader: (5)

Same old same from Petter, he`s hardly going to say he`s not quick enough anymore. Lets get rid of Petter and Atko and start afresh with some new faces. Who? I don`t have answer as nobody has the speed to challenge Loeb.

An M2 team will be great, we get to see some more Subarus on the stages and I do hope Wilks gets the seat as we need a Brit to get behind in the WRC. Don`t tell me there`s already one as we need someone fast

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

I think atkinson is fast, potentially too fast. He's a bit McRae in the way he seems to either do well or crash. Not quite as good when he does stay on the road but i think he has the desire to win, if he can be polished a bit he should eb agreat 2nd driver.

Petter for me doesn't have that desire anymore. Bit like Damon Hill after winning the F1 title, he'd done it and family + safety became more important than just trying that little bit harder. That's what made Schumacher so great and Makkinen etc, they won and wanted to keep on winning at all costs, each championship was like the first for them they were that competitive.

5t.

D6ale

iTrader: (1)

"Guy Wilks is in a race against time to land a seat with the Subaru World Rally Team for 2009 - and he needs Britain to back him.

"Guy is appealing for all British rally fans, motor clubs, businesses - everyone who shares our passion for the sport - to get involved in the Wilks 500 Club investment/sponsorship scheme."

Speaking back in July, the Englishman noted: "Driving for Subaru would be the realisation of a dream for me and I think it would really give British rally fans something to cheer. It would be fantastic.

"We have spent a long time working on the Wilks 500 Club, making sure there is something for everyone and it offers real value for money. And I would like to think British rallying, at every level, would get a lift from having a Brit back in a Subaru.

"Whether it's five pals clubbing together or a business who sees this as a big marketing opportunity, I would be very grateful for your support.

"David Richards [Subaru WRT team boss] has talked about wanting a Brit back in his team in the near future - and I want to be that Brit. He has achieved amazing things with Prodrive. He has made Subaru synonymous with rallying and he helped mould Colin McRae and Richard Burns into world champions. I know, given time, he could do the same with me.

"It's so frustrating to sit on the sidelines and watch my old JWRC rivals Dani Sordo, P-G [Andersson], Urmo Aava, Jari-Matti Latvala - all guys I could beat - setting fastest times and taking podiums in the WRC."

Please back me by joining the Wilks 500 Club."

For more information on the 'Wilks 500 Club' please go to: Guy Wilks - Home

Blind Side

Conversely running fewer cars than the opposition should enable SWRT to concentrate their efforts more effectively. I cannot accept that a lack of development time with the 'new' car is a valid argument, or that it is all down to poor quality dampers supplied by a particular manufacturer. Too many excuses and people 'resting on their laurels'!

BMWhere?

Are you for real! Oh we'll just build a brand new car hardly test it and then expect it to win a rally!

Ford only really got really successful with the 2nd generation of Focus, took them years to develop it to a consistent winner. Citroen ran the Xara WRC in the French championship for 2 years before entering in the WRC.

Testing and development are key to making the necessary improvements. The more hours testing you have and the more driver inputs you have, then the better you can develop the car.

What about the Suzuki SX4? Thats also a new car, but has had a years development before entering the WRC and has competed on more rounds of the WRC this year than the new Impreza has! Is it winning rallies yet??? Is it beating the new Impreza??? NO!!!!

phil84

I think the car needs more development, Subaru used to be there right up front but I don't know whats happened over the last few years???? Are they 1 step behind????


But then the drivers need to be more consistant as well.