Got my EVO mag today and the editor says that in his opinion the end is nigh because of the new RS as it makes 4 wheel drive redundant.

I am holding off judgement till i see some real world people driving it,ie the public, however EVO in general usually calls it spot on.

It had a shoot out up in the foothills of some med dump an was against the Megane 26R, both cars were great they reckon.starts on Pg 66
No doubt that the RS is a nice looking car and i would have one but not just yet until i see what Subaru come up with in the next couple of years.

Is this the end of the 4wd Super saloons????

No doubt DREAM WEAVER and the res will be along soon to say Yes and " i told you so".lol

Not long now till the old threads start appearing about leaving scoobs for dead stuff.lol

Mac

 

More a case that Mitsubishi and Subaru have watered down their cars too much.

Put the RS up against to top evo (FQ400) or the top Subaru (Type 20/Spec C when it arrives) and it'd probably be a different conclusion

Would the new RS get close to the new GTR? Don't think so.

 

I'm a believer that fwd is useless and would never buy a fwd car but it has to be said that these new cars are superb handlers. When thinking about it a bit more, most subaru's understeer anyway so if a fwd car has as much grip it pretty much see's off the point of 4wd..... I myself prefer rwd in a sports car

 

the fwd RS has not made awd redundant, it would have been awd itself if costs were lower, what it has done is given 300bhp to a fwd car, i somehow can't see a bugatti veyron with fwd anytime soon.

 

I'll always prefer 4WD over FWD in a car putting out serious power 300+, the roads/weather up here make it almost essential.

 

I must admit, when i owned my RS Focus MK1 i found the handling superb, i never felt any torque steer either and i used to push it hard, i bet this new one is a fantastic car, my nephew has the ST and that imo is better than the MK1 RS so they,re going in the right direction..

 

Only downside the the RS it that it's fine as it is now (300bhp)

But what happens when you get bored of that?

Can get an Evo 8/9/10 up to 400bhp very easily, and it'll still handle like a dream.
Can't see the RS handling 400 too well

 

awd and rwd is far more fun lets face it than fwd. I have a focus also, and its great to chuck about. but there is nothing like the back stepping out half a foot and pulling you round a corner at rocket speed.

Cant do this in fwd: YouTube - Scooby Drifting

I was really looking forward to the new focus being a kinda Cossie. Something Epic. but when they announced FWD, :S

 

Im not convinced.

 

I've just looked at the new RS photo's ..... it looks a bit 'BarrowBoy' don't you think?

 

Its ok now these FWD cars are brand new,but a few years down the line when bushes wear and links and sods all get lose and bent,the car takes knocks etc(potholes),critical alignment,and electronics playing up to.Will they handle like a bag of spanners the, with all that torque trying to rip the front wheels off?

 

I second Moley's comment, mine manages 50% more power than standard with no hissy fits, can you imagine a 450 bhp Focus being "fun", or a pain....

dunx

 

Pit a 400bhp Newage (Hatch version) against a RS MKII and see what the difference is around a track. Only then can you make an informed statement imo. I would suggest the difference would not be that great. I bet the RS MKII is definately the drivers car out of that and a unmodified Scoob Hatch back.

400bhp or even 500bhp does not always mean a lot in isolation.

 

I know this has no technical bearing at all but. IMO id rather say i owned a Evo or A Impreza than a focus. this is just my opinun. i cant think off any super saloon that either sounds like a scooby or is as much fun to drive as an evo

 

I think you've hit the nail right on the head there.

Mitsi and Subaru have decided to go more mainstream with their cars in the pursuit of higher sales volumes. To do this they have had to make the cars easier to live with on a day-to-day basis in order for the mild enthusiast and his wife to justify buying and living with one. Hardcore 'rally replicas' have only ever appealed the true enthusiast and we all know that the the true enthusiast is a minority group in itself.

Not everybody out there is willing to put up with driving a track focused machine everyday on the road. I would consider myself to be true enthusiast and lover of all things driver focused but even I find myself on times happy to be getting out of my RA-R, because there are just some days when you could do without that 'in yer face' experience the car delivers. The constant tyre and wind noise, harsh setup etc etc, but then all that is forgiven and forgotten once you're giving it full beans along a local B road route.

This may not apply in the 'real world' so to speak, but I have always gauged a cars outright ability on the its 'Ring laptime. The new FRS managed something like 8mins 18secs at the hand of its main test driver. We're all aware that the Spec C accomplished this fete in 7mins 58secs. And that was a standard version too, I'm sure an RA-R could shave a few more seconds off that time.

All Ford have done, and I applaud them for it, is create a fantastic FWD car that has reset the benchmark for high performance FWD cars. They have echoed what Nissan did when they reset supercar performance benchmark with the GTR.

Surely this can only be a good thing at the end of the day, as hopefully, it will spur the next gen of rally reps to really be something special to drive. Although I could contradict myself there in saying that Subaru's cars may get less and less interesting now that they have pulled out of WRC. I doubt we will see anything like the equivalent of an RA or RA-R for a few years to come now.

There is also a lot of hype surrounding the new FRS at the moment, and I although I have only read a few reviews none of them seem to be have been conducted on UK roads. They all seem to be nice, smooth, flowing roads on the continent. Many along the same test route!

I had to laugh at Autocars comments when they printed about the FRS of it being 'as fast as anything we've driven across country'. Really? Were they even considering a Lotus Exige, GTR, 911 Turbo or GT3 when they made that statement?

Anyhow, the whole debate of FWD versus AWD is now alight greater than ever, but as a maintenance technician by trade I tend to view things from a pure technical/engineering viewpoint most times, and there is no escaping the inherent benefits and advantages that come with AWD.

 

When I watched fifth gear the other week, the RS as tested was 5.9 to 60, presume that is because the electronics are limiting the power in order to get cleanly off the line. If it does the same when moving in all but perfect weather conditions I can't see it being that good. It may handle well but can never get the best out of 300bhp with the steering and traction supplied from the front wheels. I for one would not want a 300+bhp front wheel drive car. I have a 2wd cosworth with over 300bhp now that is fun and the only control on traction is my right foot, The Subaru although less power gets all of its power down with ease, I believe the electronics controlling power delivery is what makes the Focus how it is, I would rather be in control of that myself as the drive will always feel better. But then again I am biased as being an enthusiast I would rather a car be a little wild to get my kicks from it.

 

I think you should all hold your tongues till you have driven the new RS.

Then and only then will anyone here be fit to comment on its abilities.

Modified cars aside, i think its blown the Impreza and Evo into the weeds.

Subaru and Mitsi really need to take a long hard look at what they have done with their current models and regain the benchmark for the working mans performance car.

 

Having driven a MkI Focus RS, lots of Focus STs, Golf GTIs, Sciroccos etc, they are all great cars in some ways, but in every single one I have had some traction issues. In 3.5 years of Scoob ownership, I have never had a problem (even in the recent snow).

On one occasion in an ST, I tried to quickly turn right on a T junction to get in front of a slow HGV coming up the hill. The road was wet and the ESP left me stranded across the road as the car struggled for grip and I nearly got rear ended. I had to back right off and try again. That wouldn't have happened with 4WD!

 

I'm looking forward to test driving one of these new FRS'. They look amazing and I think they will go and handle beautifully. Yes, I imagine they are at the limit of what FWD technology can deliver but you have to applaud Ford for producing a cracking performance car in dire times.

If they did it with AWD my Impreza would be for sale I think.

With regards to the new Evo and Impreza, I wouldn't pay my hard earned for either. I think they are poor reflections of the previous model in both cases, especially the Subaru (I loath to call it an Impreza).

 

the only reason its being touted that 2WD is betterthan 4WD is because of development costs to-date
the RS is at the limit of 2WD technology ......4WD hasnt been developed enough (compare the number of 2WD cars to 4WD thru the years)

its like saying a boat with 2 big oarsmen is BETTER than a boat with 4 oarsmen
...well it obviously depends on how big the oarsmen are and whether they can all row in unison. The 'better' boat to be in SHOULD the 4 oarsman IF they are matched correctly to work TOGETHER

if the systems are in place then the more driven wheels the better

 

Wasn't there all this hype with the first generation RS? An initial 5 star rating which went rapidly down to 4 once the car was driven on a potholed, rough (ie British) road. I like the looks, noise and the Recaros for starters

 

This is very true. I remember the Mk1 FRS had everyone jumping up and down at first, then after a few drives on average UK roads they started to notice that things weren;t quite as good.

Don't get me wrong I really like the look of the new RS and if I had the money it would be at the top of my list.

Not usually a Ford fan, but as said, they're still producing true driver focused cars, with a clear performance evolution and not as Subaru and Mitsi have watered down monstrosities. For that Ford deserve a pat on the back. Lets all hope it is the wake up call subaru/mitsubishi need.

 

Damn you s70. I need to work faster..!

 

Or we both need to spend less time reading Evo and similar...............

 

Wash your mouth out for mentioning the GTR in the same sentence as the focus
They should be kept at least 2 paragraphs apart at all times

 

Front wheel drive is for Pansies.
Don't give me traction control, give me traction!

 

I see no one has actually pointed out the biggest difference between the FRS2 and the Subaru Impreza/Mitsubishi Evo yet

Its not about fwd v AWD v 4wd, its about the ammout of doors the car has

Ford have produced a really nice 3 door hatch with just under 300bhp, aimed at single/married no kids families, subaru and mitsubishi have aimed at the single/married/no kids/kids family.

I would only worry if ford release a 5 door version and there will be no chance of that

Tony

 

There was a Ford RS demonstrator at Snetterton the other week. In white looked nice with 19 inch 235/35 alloys

Was being driven most of the time by Don Palmer and I can tell you that it started off ahead of me and I only gained slight on it over the next 2 laps - me with over 450 bhp - now I'm not a professional driver but I've driven a few times and had tuition at Snetteron so know most of the lines........... then again Don drove my car so I know that mine has more........

I think it would be a great, cheap car to drive on track. Then again I get brought down to earth by my wife who says 'no way your even considering a Ford!..... then again she also thinks subaru's are Kev boy racer cars these days.............

Am seriously now considering a GTR and/or the new GT3 - the main problem though I see with the GTR is the weight - I just cant see it doing more than a couple of track days without something breaking..... and the 20 inch wheels/profile are very, very specialist at a lot of cost!

 

Our company has a few RSs now, but I've not had the chance to try one yet. The green one looks particularly striking.

However, this month's TG mag still reckons the Golf GTI is a better car, although mainly because the RS is a bit too chav.

I'd never let a naff image put me off a good car, though. I drive a Scoob after all!

 

The difference is....how much is a new RS?
I can't afford one....and I won't be buying anything that expensive or years!
My £5700(last April) Bugeye WRX(240bhp/239lb) is no way the fastest thing on the road and its far from the slowest but for the price you are gonna find it hard to go faster in all weather around country lanes. Especially if you buy 2wd!
I LOVE Scoobs, Evos and Skylines but I have no problem with buying an RS (when they are cheap enough) if it is proven that it is better all round.
I saw an 06 plate Spec C Team Araiy(or some team like that) and it was a jap import for £19,999.....was on Pistonheads...imagine that with 400 or more....its gonna trounce the RS?
Its all about the money....anyone can come along and have a faster car...but how much have they spent?