2.5 build, worth it ?
07 September 2010, 11:50 AM
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2.5 build, worth it ?
Hi
Unfortunately I've blown the head gasket in my Type R
Happened whilst doing donuts on the oval at Crail
Its currently at a garage getting checked out and what I thought would be a simple head gasket replacement has the potential to turn into a 3.5 K engine rebuild
or so I'm told. The mechanic rattled of about 5 different things that usually also go when the head gasket does.
I'm new to the scooby scene, so dont know to much about them tbh
Can anyone advise me on rebuid costs and what needs replacing and also what a 2.5 bottom end would cost to fit and all associated parts ?
the way I see it theres not much point in spending all that cash just to get to the same point as I was before
any advice appreciated
Unfortunately I've blown the head gasket in my Type R
Happened whilst doing donuts on the oval at Crail
Its currently at a garage getting checked out and what I thought would be a simple head gasket replacement has the potential to turn into a 3.5 K engine rebuild
or so I'm told. The mechanic rattled of about 5 different things that usually also go when the head gasket does.I'm new to the scooby scene, so dont know to much about them tbh
Can anyone advise me on rebuid costs and what needs replacing and also what a 2.5 bottom end would cost to fit and all associated parts ?
the way I see it theres not much point in spending all that cash just to get to the same point as I was before
any advice appreciated
07 September 2010, 12:09 PM
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You do have to change quickly with the type r box, have to say though that i really enjoy driving it, got a 2.5 in my type r, you can nail it in 5th from 35 and it'll just pull and pull to redline, so lazy driving as well if your feeling that way
07 September 2010, 12:42 PM
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New Sti 2.5 lump, heads machined to work with the 2.5 and a remap, there is quite a lot more to it. All the work was done by Scooby technix for the previous owner, I've got a detailed breakdown if you want on costs for it.
I've driven a 2ltr and the 2.5 is much easier on the road with all that torque
I've driven a 2ltr and the 2.5 is much easier on the road with all that torque
07 September 2010, 12:51 PM
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2.5 is the way to go for a road car, but as Tidgy says, when working out costs it's best to factor in the price of a transmission that will accommodate the torque they displace i.e. PPG or 6 speed from new age STi.
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07 September 2010, 01:11 PM
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My old V5 STi cost £3k for a standard rebuild 10yrs ago ... seems a tad cheaper today although forged parts etc will cost you more. Not cheap
TX.
PS
PPG / 6 speed is a further £2-3k.
TX.
PS
PPG / 6 speed is a further £2-3k.
Last edited by Terminator X; 07 September 2010 at 01:13 PM. Reason: added PS
07 September 2010, 01:20 PM
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I saved up for ages for this car, paid 5K for it no more than 2 months ago
The garage has quoted me £1100 for JUST a head gasket, if I'm lucky enough for everything else to be OK
They also said bottom ends go soon after the head gaskets are done so I may want to do it while its out (not sure if their pulling me leg)
I'm half considering selling it as it is
I'm not to keen on chucking 3.5K to never get it back
07 September 2010, 01:22 PM
#12
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what are they doing for the price? just the gasket? crank bearings have a nasty habit of going very soon after.
have a word with scoobyclinic, they build alot of engines and i know one of the guys there has a 2.5 in his type r thats been kept to a resonable power level to protect the gearbox.
have a word with scoobyclinic, they build alot of engines and i know one of the guys there has a 2.5 in his type r thats been kept to a resonable power level to protect the gearbox.
07 September 2010, 01:43 PM
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what are they doing for the price? just the gasket? crank bearings have a nasty habit of going very soon after.
have a word with scoobyclinic, they build alot of engines and i know one of the guys there has a 2.5 in his type r thats been kept to a resonable power level to protect the gearbox.
have a word with scoobyclinic, they build alot of engines and i know one of the guys there has a 2.5 in his type r thats been kept to a resonable power level to protect the gearbox.
Ye just the head gasket and whatever goes with it
Seen I can get a 2.5 block for around 1.5 K, I like the idea of keeping the power down.
Anyone any idea what else needs to be done to fit the 2.5 block, reading about it on the Andy Forrest site he makes it sound quite simple
07 September 2010, 01:44 PM
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New Sti 2.5 lump, heads machined to work with the 2.5 and a remap, there is quite a lot more to it. All the work was done by Scooby technix for the previous owner, I've got a detailed breakdown if you want on costs for it.
I've driven a 2ltr and the 2.5 is much easier on the road with all that torque
I've driven a 2ltr and the 2.5 is much easier on the road with all that torque
07 September 2010, 01:58 PM
#16
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Whilst a 2.5 might me great for torque.... it won't (normally) be great for oil consumption and potential further headgasket issues.
Personally I would go for a 2.1 build assuming your current engine block is fine, also assuming you want more gee gees. IMO opinion that is going to be a more reliable build.
Personally I would go for a 2.1 build assuming your current engine block is fine, also assuming you want more gee gees. IMO opinion that is going to be a more reliable build.
07 September 2010, 02:05 PM
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From Dundee, cars at AWD in Perth
whats required for this, as again I have no idea
Whilst a 2.5 might me great for torque.... it won't (normally) be great for oil consumption and potential further headgasket issues.
Personally I would go for a 2.1 build assuming your current engine block is fine, also assuming you want more gee gees. IMO opinion that is going to be a more reliable build.
Personally I would go for a 2.1 build assuming your current engine block is fine, also assuming you want more gee gees. IMO opinion that is going to be a more reliable build.
07 September 2010, 02:35 PM
#19
Mine has just this year been rebuilt as a 2.5. It WAS a 2 litre UK car running around 300bhp, with a few small mods and a remap.
Before doing anything I talked to a LOT of people, respected tuners and owners, and took advice. (Thanks Stevo210 and dunx). The upshot was that I knew I wanted a bit more power, and with more power in a 2.5 comes quite a bit more torque, so the first thing I did was source a 6 speed setup from a UK STi.
I then started looking for a 2.5 short motor, or block/crank, and hit on one, brand new, still in the Subaru packing case, from a project where the guy had changed his mind. He accepted my offer which was far enough below full new price to make it worthwhile me having it split and forged rods and pistons fitted.
Car is, at present, having an uprated clutch fitted. We thought the newish clutch that was in it would cope, but it started slipping, so has gone in for that.
Mine too, uses little or no oil, but it does rattle a bit when cold, as do most forged motors, or so I'm told.
Driveability? It goes virtually everywhere I want it to in 5th, I hardly need to change down and torque is just amazing for neck-wrenching accleration. Before, I had to drive around town in 4th or even 3rd, now it's 5th.
Edited to say: 2.5 forged conversion.
740cc injectors.
FMIC from Harvey Smith.
HSTD05 20g uprated turbo.
Induction kit
Remap from Bob Rawle.
Before doing anything I talked to a LOT of people, respected tuners and owners, and took advice. (Thanks Stevo210 and dunx). The upshot was that I knew I wanted a bit more power, and with more power in a 2.5 comes quite a bit more torque, so the first thing I did was source a 6 speed setup from a UK STi.
I then started looking for a 2.5 short motor, or block/crank, and hit on one, brand new, still in the Subaru packing case, from a project where the guy had changed his mind. He accepted my offer which was far enough below full new price to make it worthwhile me having it split and forged rods and pistons fitted.
Car is, at present, having an uprated clutch fitted. We thought the newish clutch that was in it would cope, but it started slipping, so has gone in for that.
Mine too, uses little or no oil, but it does rattle a bit when cold, as do most forged motors, or so I'm told.
Driveability? It goes virtually everywhere I want it to in 5th, I hardly need to change down and torque is just amazing for neck-wrenching accleration. Before, I had to drive around town in 4th or even 3rd, now it's 5th.
Edited to say: 2.5 forged conversion.
740cc injectors.
FMIC from Harvey Smith.
HSTD05 20g uprated turbo.
Induction kit
Remap from Bob Rawle.
Last edited by alcazar; 07 September 2010 at 02:37 PM.
07 September 2010, 03:03 PM
#20
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Mine has just this year been rebuilt as a 2.5. It WAS a 2 litre UK car running around 300bhp, with a few small mods and a remap.
Before doing anything I talked to a LOT of people, respected tuners and owners, and took advice. (Thanks Stevo210 and dunx). The upshot was that I knew I wanted a bit more power, and with more power in a 2.5 comes quite a bit more torque, so the first thing I did was source a 6 speed setup from a UK STi.
I then started looking for a 2.5 short motor, or block/crank, and hit on one, brand new, still in the Subaru packing case, from a project where the guy had changed his mind. He accepted my offer which was far enough below full new price to make it worthwhile me having it split and forged rods and pistons fitted.
Car is, at present, having an uprated clutch fitted. We thought the newish clutch that was in it would cope, but it started slipping, so has gone in for that.
Mine too, uses little or no oil, but it does rattle a bit when cold, as do most forged motors, or so I'm told.
Driveability? It goes virtually everywhere I want it to in 5th, I hardly need to change down and torque is just amazing for neck-wrenching accleration. Before, I had to drive around town in 4th or even 3rd, now it's 5th.
Edited to say: 2.5 forged conversion.
740cc injectors.
FMIC from Harvey Smith.
HSTD05 20g uprated turbo.
Induction kit
Remap from Bob Rawle.
Before doing anything I talked to a LOT of people, respected tuners and owners, and took advice. (Thanks Stevo210 and dunx). The upshot was that I knew I wanted a bit more power, and with more power in a 2.5 comes quite a bit more torque, so the first thing I did was source a 6 speed setup from a UK STi.
I then started looking for a 2.5 short motor, or block/crank, and hit on one, brand new, still in the Subaru packing case, from a project where the guy had changed his mind. He accepted my offer which was far enough below full new price to make it worthwhile me having it split and forged rods and pistons fitted.
Car is, at present, having an uprated clutch fitted. We thought the newish clutch that was in it would cope, but it started slipping, so has gone in for that.
Mine too, uses little or no oil, but it does rattle a bit when cold, as do most forged motors, or so I'm told.
Driveability? It goes virtually everywhere I want it to in 5th, I hardly need to change down and torque is just amazing for neck-wrenching accleration. Before, I had to drive around town in 4th or even 3rd, now it's 5th.
Edited to say: 2.5 forged conversion.
740cc injectors.
FMIC from Harvey Smith.
HSTD05 20g uprated turbo.
Induction kit
Remap from Bob Rawle.
So at a minumim I would need:
The 2.5 block
Injectors
FMIC
Turbo
Remap
I realise I should also do the gear box but that can be done at a later time. Out of interest any idea what my box is worth ?
Food for thought
07 September 2010, 03:16 PM
#22
Unfortunatly your box is not worth much. Everyone wants the newer V5 onwards box.
I am running on the standard gearbox still. As long as you dont launch or track it it should be OK. Just have the money on stanby until it goes.
As mentioned keep your eyes out, I too picked up an EJ257 still in the packing case due to someone changing their mind.
I am running on the standard gearbox still. As long as you dont launch or track it it should be OK. Just have the money on stanby until it goes.
As mentioned keep your eyes out, I too picked up an EJ257 still in the packing case due to someone changing their mind.
07 September 2010, 03:31 PM
#23
Shaun is right on this.
To summarise
2.5 is big torque and will destroy your gearbox.
So to cut to the chase
For the a good six speed box, clutch plus a forged 2.5 and all the other gubbins you might need to do it PROPERLY - have you at least 10k?
If the answer is No.
Stick with your existing drive train. Get a forged 2.0 or idealy a 2.1 primarily for reliability and get it mapped to what ever your drivetrain will take.
Broad generalisation - as each different box has a breaking point
(300hp ish and assciated torque max with your 752 box and its weak casing you have in your V3)
At some point when you fancy it get a six speed and hike the power up.
What state are heads in? as they are the best bit you have out of your standard Sti V3 set up
To summarise
2.5 is big torque and will destroy your gearbox.
So to cut to the chase
For the a good six speed box, clutch plus a forged 2.5 and all the other gubbins you might need to do it PROPERLY - have you at least 10k?
If the answer is No.
Stick with your existing drive train. Get a forged 2.0 or idealy a 2.1 primarily for reliability and get it mapped to what ever your drivetrain will take.
Broad generalisation - as each different box has a breaking point
(300hp ish and assciated torque max with your 752 box and its weak casing you have in your V3)
At some point when you fancy it get a six speed and hike the power up.
What state are heads in? as they are the best bit you have out of your standard Sti V3 set up
07 September 2010, 03:44 PM
#24
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Shaun is right on this.
To summarise
2.5 is big torque and will destroy your gearbox.
So to cut to the chase
For the a good six speed box, clutch plus a forged 2.5 and all the other gubbins you might need to do it PROPERLY - have you at least 10k?
If the answer is No.
To summarise
2.5 is big torque and will destroy your gearbox.
So to cut to the chase
For the a good six speed box, clutch plus a forged 2.5 and all the other gubbins you might need to do it PROPERLY - have you at least 10k?
If the answer is No.
Stick with your existing drive train. Get a forged 2.0 or idealy a 2.1 primarily for reliability and get it mapped to what ever your drivetrain will take.
Broad generalisation - as each different box has a breaking point
(300hp ish and assciated torque max with your 752 box and its weak casing you have in your V3)
At some point when you fancy it get a six speed and hike the power up.
What state are heads in? as they are the best bit you have out of your standard Sti V3 set up
Broad generalisation - as each different box has a breaking point
(300hp ish and assciated torque max with your 752 box and its weak casing you have in your V3)
At some point when you fancy it get a six speed and hike the power up.
What state are heads in? as they are the best bit you have out of your standard Sti V3 set up
No idea what the heads are like, the engines getting stripped a week today
I'm still holding onto the distant dream that it will just require head gaskets replaced but the guys at the garage dont seem to hopeful of that
07 September 2010, 04:34 PM
#27
Gearbox strength is as long as a piece of string.
As a very crude generalisation
The 752s do not like big torque end of story. A 2.5 like the OP wants will destroy his box quicky. I have seen a 2.5 rip a 752 box with upgraded sti gear sets apart very quickly.
V4, if it is a late one, it might have the stronger 754 6 bolt casing and yes is more likely to hold the power. I ran 360lbs through one for 6 months. However still not bullet proof.
07 September 2010, 04:51 PM
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Having read this thread I think I would be asking myself a few questions before i did anything.
Were you happy with the power output before it went bang?
Do you want to throw pots of cash on uprating parts for relatively little gains added to a worry of another failure.
If money is short i would stick two a 2.0 or 2.1 2.2 appropriate ancillarys that doesnt put too much strain on other parts of the drive train.
Horse power is immense fun but i learnt that if money is tight any fun to be had upping the BHP can be overshadowed by the anxiety that something else could go pop.
I might be totally wrong however and i'm sure others will tel you that I probably am.
Just dont lose sight of what you really want to be doing.
Owning a Scoob doesnt always have to be about modding and chucking money at it. I havent done a thing to my second Impreza purely because my misses would force me to sell if I was chucking cash at it.
I like it as it is anyway. 305 BHP approx is enough for me. Daily i am tempted to up the BHP by more but i went down that road with my last car and the only thing i learnt was modding isnt something enjoy. It left me totally confused.
I appreciate why others do enjoy it tho and not criticising in the least.
Just take your time and think it thorough.
Were you happy with the power output before it went bang?
Do you want to throw pots of cash on uprating parts for relatively little gains added to a worry of another failure.
If money is short i would stick two a 2.0 or 2.1 2.2 appropriate ancillarys that doesnt put too much strain on other parts of the drive train.
Horse power is immense fun but i learnt that if money is tight any fun to be had upping the BHP can be overshadowed by the anxiety that something else could go pop.
I might be totally wrong however and i'm sure others will tel you that I probably am.
Just dont lose sight of what you really want to be doing.
Owning a Scoob doesnt always have to be about modding and chucking money at it. I havent done a thing to my second Impreza purely because my misses would force me to sell if I was chucking cash at it.
I like it as it is anyway. 305 BHP approx is enough for me. Daily i am tempted to up the BHP by more but i went down that road with my last car and the only thing i learnt was modding isnt something enjoy. It left me totally confused.
I appreciate why others do enjoy it tho and not criticising in the least.
Just take your time and think it thorough.