ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

As i'm attempting to do my own DIY build, just wondered how many had taken the road less travelled, and what the common pit falls are.

Also what advice, tips and hints / things not to forget and what to watch out for when putting it all together.

Looking for any info i can get so as to avoid having to do it all over again because i made a silly mistake

boosted

Clean, clean and more clean! probably the best advice. Torque settings as well obviously. Check all bearing clearances with plastigauge too. All the other stuff is basic mechanics.

Ginge !

iTrader: (1)

the labour a build is very minor compared to the prices of parts so i would always be tempted to get a experience builder to do it for me if im doing big power engine as if something fails you will kick yourself

my mate just rebuilt his evo engine and 4 weeks later span a shell, dont know why but he now has to rebuild and buy a extra steel rod which is more hassle and more cash than the labour for someone to do it

then again tbh most decent engine builders wont allow you to supply parts so you would be stuck at there prices

i put a post up yesterday and was quoted 2650 inc vat for a 2.1 short engine built on exchange basis

Scooby David

iTrader: (3)

I have built two engines previously, a simple MK1 Golf 1.3l engine and an MR2 2.0l Turbo engine. I am far from being an experienced tuner or engine builder but believe it or not providing you have torque settings etc its not that difficult, just like a big puzzle.

The best advise i can give is to take pictures so you know where everything goes and to bag all nuts and bolts together with the bits they belong to!

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Yep, i'm sick of cleaning but at least i've gotten rid of all the crap now and its getting more and more like a shiny new engine still going to do it again though before i put it all together

And i agree about the basic mechanics part, just don't want to do anything stupid and screw it up

PaulJC

iTrader: (1)

I've built quite a few, started off with motorcross bikes when i were a lad, rebuilt my Astra GTE engine when i over reved it and killed a shell, built my own ZVH for my RS Turbo and my own Cosworth engine and a couple of friends.

Clean, measure, clean again, measure again, then do it a 3rd time for good luck...

Find someone local who can dip clean your parts for you, working on clean stuff is MUCH easier/nicer, new studs/nuts dont cost the earth and can make all the difference to a build, check all your clearances as many times as you have to untill your happy, even if it means building it up and tearing it down a million times.

It's not rocket science and if you take your time and do it all properly i cant see any reason why you would have any issues.

bigsinky

if you haven't worked on subaru engines before get some who is experienced in them to do or it will end in tears. is this a replacement engine build or a power build?

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Thats a good price and from one of the best in the business,but i'm hoping to do mine for about 2k less, ok it's not a 2.1 but it is forged and more than capable than giving me the power levels i'm after,and due to other very large financial commitments i can't justify such expenditure at the moment, having gone that route before and ended up with a broken engine, i shall place my trust in my own abilities having been in engineering 27yrs i'm not afraid of getting my hands dirty

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

To give you a bit of my background, i was building engines at 17 on a yts at a tool hire firm while doing day release mech/elec diploma, then i was a lift engineer for 4yrs and my last big lift was a 5 floor at leeds uni, then i spent the next 20 odd years working in the motor trade, alarms, stereos,central locking, electric windows,tracking systems, i finished up being one of the top engineers for vodafone corporate customers with big problems being a speciality,as well as having rebuilt many a bike engine and done engine and gearbox swops and most of my own servicing/repairs since i was knee high to a gate post.

This is the only car i have owned that i did not do most of the work on as i had the funds to afford someone else to do it, and how wrong did that decision turn out to be.

So i think i'll give it a go as it can't be any worse than the last build considering how that has ended.

But thanks for the advice

KrisBuc

iTrader: (2)

Ive built a 2.2 3sgte engine with help from my younger brother(works with Aston Martins) and found it fine like everyone is saying clean, measure,check and good luck

Galifrey

iTrader: (3)

Last engine I built was an R1 engine, only advice I can offer that hasn't been given is ensure wife doesnt catch you cleaning parts in the dishwasher.

Scooby David

iTrader: (3)

Ginge !

iTrader: (1)

its not the assembling thats the issue is the measuring and also noticing if something is right or not, engines require engineering rather than assembling as you need the machining done ect

im tempted to give it a go and i helped mates build escort turbo engines and rebuilt the head and stripped and reassembled my old cossie engine but for the extra labour which is generally 300 quid you get a pro to build the engine ( that means take it to a actual pro not someone who is a bit cheeper than the pro or you will be better off doing yourself

as said if its a refresh rebuild i would do it on my own ( though as i work at a ford main dealer i also have assistance of 30 technicians should i get stuck lol) but for a power build with tighter tollerences,,,,,, thats where i would leave it to a pro who knows the tollerences as they aint gonna be the same as the factory tollerences plus they will have there secret inside knowlege from their errors when they started out doing engines ect

boosted

An engine is an engine, doesnt matter who makes it the basic build principals are all the same. the only tricky bits with the flat four are getting the pistons and two halves out by removing the gudgeon pins, everything else follows the same principals as any other engine. Next you will be telling him he has to "pre fill his oil filter" lol

Ginge !

iTrader: (1)

you DO prefill the oil filter, ive never understood why people dont

boxer engines are just engines ill agree BUT you need to understand them AND the tollerences hence we have porsche specialists who work on boxers all the time

same goes for the gearbox, i couldnt find a general garage interested in doing the gearbox on my impreza as they didnt know how it worked,,,, there is nothing to it but they didnt wanna be caught out and end up out of pocket so would rather work to there comfort zone

OH heres a good example, ford transit duratorq engines, alot of garages **** up them engine builds due to the VERY strict torque settings and the timing of the diesel engines so i sell alot of prebuilt engines to garages as they are 2400 quid and a gasket set/bearings ect all works out at 1200 quid for a rebuild and some garages have had return work with head gaskets failing

cosworth engines on the other hand have very relaxed tollerences same with the rs turbo engines, we once unsized a old turbo cvh with coke left over night and big breaker bar on scaffold pole, we swopped some pistons from 2 seperate engine ( one melted), used the good bearings from the melted engine and even recycled the piston rings too and slaped that engine together and it lasted for 2 years like it and went in 3 seperate cars too before it threw a rod

now i would never do it before BUT it was the first ever engine rebuild we got involved in so it was blind leading the blind and we didnt wanna spend cash incash we wasnt any good at it and it paid off big time

anyway im going on a bit now but the point was i get what the other guy was trying to say

his-n-her-scoobs

iTrader: (5)

Personally I think they are amongst the easiest to pull apart and put back together, tho I havn't done any mods.

As for advice, get an engine stand, makes life a whole lot easier

If you have sound mechanical experience and a half decent tool kit you will have no problems.

Good luck

boosted

tollerances are tollerances, you must adhere to them regardless of the engine, hence it makes no difference what engine your building. sod pre filling the filter! try doing that in a VW or BMW!

Jimbob

iTrader: (13)

If a filter is hanging down always prefill it, if the filter is horizontal then no need to prefill.

ANY engine is the same, you can get away with it, but its best practise.


I`ve rebuilt many an engine, and as said its clean clean clean, bag up everything and label it, new bolts if you can get them, and find a nice local guy who you can ring up if you get stuck or to double check something.
Any rubber seals replace, as they usually perish.

If in doubt, leave it and find out.

Invest in decent tools too, assembly pastes etc, as they will make life easier, and get decent torque wrenches, one small one large. As it will cover smaller bolts and your crank bolts.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Well it is a refresh really, just rods crank and bearings,along with all the seals and gaskets, pistons remain.

But big power or not the engine building part is the same, only thing that changes is the cost and quality of the componets.

But an engine is an engine, i don't see why people are so afraid of subaru's.

A shoddy workman will get away with it some times, maybe even most of the time, and for sure i have seen more than my fair share of poor workmanship as i was more often than not the one sent to sort it out, as long as you follow good working practices there is no reason that it should fail.

I don't know of any engine builders of any note that are offering to rebuild subarau engines for £300. and i cant see how they could as the labour time involved with just the cleaning must be in that region.

I think if there was he would have more work than he could shake a stick at if his builds were proven.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Sound advice

Ginge !

iTrader: (1)

its **** easy in a BMW,,, the filter is at the top just behind the radiator, my old 325i was **** easy to service, apart from draining the oil all the filters are at the top of the engine bay so you dont even have to bend over servicing one of them

airfilter comes out like a cassette too, try doing a pollen filter on a ford focus Mk1 or the new KA

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Do they still make fords.

Ginge !

iTrader: (1)

price up just how much the parts are on Alans 2600 quid WITH VAT quote for a 500bhp engine block and you might see there isnt much actual labour in building a engine, 300 quid is generally 6 hours labour time as cleaning a block after its machined is not that long and the machine shop generally will dip the engine before the machine work is done

they make extra cash out on the parts they sell you hence they wont build a engine if you supply the parts not to mention there is always extra hassle ect

labour price tbh in the tuning game are usually very low and not all hours are billed for but as said there is a decent mark up on some parts that allow that and they dont always charge for all the hours they do on the car but if they have enough work and are quick enough they can get it done within the time scales when doing what ever to the careg: intercooler is a big job, but you can also change the airfilter as part of it and other stuff within the sort of time as the car is in the car is already in bits if you get what i mean or say a inlet manifold, you can also do parallel fuel rails and change the injectors in the same sort of time but can bill a sneeky hour onto the job

btw i work at a ford main dealer so i know how the service department prices work ( even thought we charge 115 quid a hour plus vat) we still dont charge all the book hours times but then the techs also are quicker than the book times too

Ginge !

iTrader: (1)

i hope so,,,,,, or im out of a job pmsl

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Cheers his n hers

scoobjam74

iTrader: (11)

ok heres another way of looking at it as i thought of building a 2.1 stroker in my cdb , you buy a complete new kit with shells crank rods and pistons rings , fair enough get the block honed to suit the new pistons and check ring gaps , but when putting the shells in the rods and main bearings you check with plastiguage will the tollerances be correct as there all brand new parts or can they be out and if so then what as no one has answered that question , example if you torque up a big end shell then check the plastigauge and it comes up as to tight or to loose what do you need to to have the crank alterd to suit or do something with the new shell ????

boosted

I built a honda 2.2 diesel recently with a mate. They offer seven thicknesses of big end shell. Aim to have between .0015" to .002" max, any tighter will nip up- trust me!

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

You see how much each is out by and swap them around accordingly or get over sized shells but generally they will be within tolerance, what your aming to do is get them as close to each other as possible to provide good ballance at least thats what i'm hoping when i get my gaskets.

Baz82

I build my forged 2.5 last year for my 98 sti wagon and had the car on the road in march of this year due to being busy, the engine has done 13k kms since then and going great.

The only reason I built it is if anything went wrong I only have myself to blame, so having built a couple on nissan turbo engine I gave it a go, very daunting, but simple at the same time once you realise the workings on the boxer engine and how it put together.

My advise, get a good machine shop to do the machine work for you, I got the v4 sti heads reconditioned and the block machined to accept 100mm pistons.

Also the rings were file fit so I got the machine shop to do that as I was not happy doing it, then I assembled it.

-Get your hand on the work shop manual, has all the torque setting etc.

-Go easy on the gasket sealer

-New modine/oil cooler

-Be careful putting the pistons in that you use a good ring compressor and dont break a peice of ring off and destroy a bore.

-torqing up the cam seals cap bolts, be very very carefull these can snap extremely handy.

-Get yourself a good torque wrench

Hope this helps

boosted

As for torquing up cam cap bolts... my mate was struggling to make the torque without sbnapping them, so, the best solution? dont do them up soo fakcing tight! Common sense applies!