Thinking about buying a classic
04 December 2011, 10:07 PM
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Thinking about buying a classic
Hi,
I posted on here a few weeks ago as I was considering buying a hawkeye STI but ive started to think over the last few days that Id rather save the extra cash and buy something a little older.
I was considering buying one of the 1999/2000 shape rectangle headlight classics. because to be quite honest I like the look of them.
I am just after a little more information on them,
What do I want to look for, How does the model range stack up and what power are they, standard and remapped?
anything that i need to look out for?
I look forward to hearing your views, im looking at spending around £2-3k, it seems to me you get alot of car for little money
I posted on here a few weeks ago as I was considering buying a hawkeye STI but ive started to think over the last few days that Id rather save the extra cash and buy something a little older.
I was considering buying one of the 1999/2000 shape rectangle headlight classics. because to be quite honest I like the look of them.
I am just after a little more information on them,
What do I want to look for, How does the model range stack up and what power are they, standard and remapped?
anything that i need to look out for?
I look forward to hearing your views, im looking at spending around £2-3k, it seems to me you get alot of car for little money
04 December 2011, 10:24 PM
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Hi mate, you're questions are a little vague but i'll try and point you the right way.
You're on the right track with a 1999/2000 as they are the last of the classics, known as a facelift model. Most are UK 2000 cars so insurance is cheaper and will come with 218bhp as standard, crystal headlights and facelift grill, bonnet and bumper. Some cars also have colour coded door handles and skirts on those years. They also have 4 pot front brakes.
You're looking for T, V, W and X reg cars, main colours are Blue, Silver and Mica Red. Things to look out for are rust around the rear arches (around £300 a side to fix), knocking rear suspension (shocks mainly), the MAF (air flow meter) is also a weak spot on 99/00 cars and can cause issues. Air-con was a 1k option so is nice if you can get it.
Performance wise, if you did basic mods to a uk classic (panel filter, de-cat exhaust, fuel pump) and had it remapped then you should see around 270bhp and torque. Problem with 99/00 cars is that the only option for mapping is ECUtek which is £500+ for the 1st map as you have to buy a £150 license.
For your budget you should really be looking for a car with minor mods thats already been mapped as this will keep costs down in the future. You'll have a lot of choice with that sort of money, either a low mileage standard car or a well modded enthusiasts car (like mine).
You're on the right track with a 1999/2000 as they are the last of the classics, known as a facelift model. Most are UK 2000 cars so insurance is cheaper and will come with 218bhp as standard, crystal headlights and facelift grill, bonnet and bumper. Some cars also have colour coded door handles and skirts on those years. They also have 4 pot front brakes.
You're looking for T, V, W and X reg cars, main colours are Blue, Silver and Mica Red. Things to look out for are rust around the rear arches (around £300 a side to fix), knocking rear suspension (shocks mainly), the MAF (air flow meter) is also a weak spot on 99/00 cars and can cause issues. Air-con was a 1k option so is nice if you can get it.
Performance wise, if you did basic mods to a uk classic (panel filter, de-cat exhaust, fuel pump) and had it remapped then you should see around 270bhp and torque. Problem with 99/00 cars is that the only option for mapping is ECUtek which is £500+ for the 1st map as you have to buy a £150 license.
For your budget you should really be looking for a car with minor mods thats already been mapped as this will keep costs down in the future. You'll have a lot of choice with that sort of money, either a low mileage standard car or a well modded enthusiasts car (like mine).
04 December 2011, 10:29 PM
#3
I suggest you go back and look at newer cars and forget the classic unless it's a weekend car, the newest you will find is 12 yrs old and tbh they are money pits.
Trust me i know, there are good ones to be had but you want to up you budget and buy one for 5/6k that someone on here has spent a fortune on and then you stand a much better chance of trouble free motoring.
You can pick up a nice 04/54 car for 4k much better daily driver, i just bought a wrx wagon with prodrive performance pack and ap 4 pot front brakes for that.
You really need to know imprezas to get a good one for 2/3k and once you get the modding bug which you will, things get very expensive very quickly.
Trust me i know, there are good ones to be had but you want to up you budget and buy one for 5/6k that someone on here has spent a fortune on and then you stand a much better chance of trouble free motoring.
You can pick up a nice 04/54 car for 4k much better daily driver, i just bought a wrx wagon with prodrive performance pack and ap 4 pot front brakes for that.
You really need to know imprezas to get a good one for 2/3k and once you get the modding bug which you will, things get very expensive very quickly.
04 December 2011, 10:30 PM
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Yeah I was just looking for a little info really, How the model range stacks up, ie is the standard wrx the 218 bhp one and is there an STI?
how do these engines handle miles? I know im relying on 10 years of previous owners for the maintenance but should I be looking for a low miles car.
There doesnt seem to be many about with a leather interior, that would have been nice.
Why do you say they are moneypits, Just because of the age or are they particually unreliable?
how do these engines handle miles? I know im relying on 10 years of previous owners for the maintenance but should I be looking for a low miles car.
There doesnt seem to be many about with a leather interior, that would have been nice.
Why do you say they are moneypits, Just because of the age or are they particually unreliable?
Last edited by deadonkey; 04 December 2011 at 10:32 PM.
04 December 2011, 10:37 PM
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Leather interior isnt nice, its not the right car for it.
They can handle the miles depending on how theyre driven/maintained chap, its pot luck to be honest. Mine had 118k with FSH when I got it and the last 20k of that was run at 330 bhp. 2000 miles later and I had to replace the engine and turbo but that was my own fault for running it too hard on the Autobahn.
The usual rules apply really, you want history, cambelt changes, etc etc when buying one. Walk away from ANYTHING with no or little history, no matter how good it seems.
They can handle the miles depending on how theyre driven/maintained chap, its pot luck to be honest. Mine had 118k with FSH when I got it and the last 20k of that was run at 330 bhp. 2000 miles later and I had to replace the engine and turbo but that was my own fault for running it too hard on the Autobahn.
The usual rules apply really, you want history, cambelt changes, etc etc when buying one. Walk away from ANYTHING with no or little history, no matter how good it seems.
04 December 2011, 10:57 PM
#7
Leather interiors come up on ebay all the time.
2000 miles and new engine is a familiar tale, i did about 500 before i had to fork out for a rebuild, they get to a certain point and pop, i think there are a lot out there that are perfectly fine, but these cars are very particular about how they need to be treated, iv'e just finished rebuilding my classic for the second time, self build this time though, as paying someone to do it is expensive and probably cost more than the car is worth to have it done by one of the outfits that do know what they are doing.
2000 miles and new engine is a familiar tale, i did about 500 before i had to fork out for a rebuild, they get to a certain point and pop, i think there are a lot out there that are perfectly fine, but these cars are very particular about how they need to be treated, iv'e just finished rebuilding my classic for the second time, self build this time though, as paying someone to do it is expensive and probably cost more than the car is worth to have it done by one of the outfits that do know what they are doing.
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04 December 2011, 11:16 PM
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nope, theres thousands of them out there. Theyre just as reliable as any other engine/manufacturer.
Once you start cranking the power up then things get stressed. My power was increased by 50% on standard internals, which is ok, but can shorten the lifespan. The only reason mine went pop was because I'd done 200 miles on the Autobahns and was getting bored, saw some friends go past at 130+ and decided to give it the beans up to 160+. If I had an oil temp and pressure gauge I wouldnt have done it, but you live n learn.
300bhp in a UK classic is perfectly fine. If you want a stronger engine then look for an Sti instead.
Once you start cranking the power up then things get stressed. My power was increased by 50% on standard internals, which is ok, but can shorten the lifespan. The only reason mine went pop was because I'd done 200 miles on the Autobahns and was getting bored, saw some friends go past at 130+ and decided to give it the beans up to 160+. If I had an oil temp and pressure gauge I wouldnt have done it, but you live n learn.
300bhp in a UK classic is perfectly fine. If you want a stronger engine then look for an Sti instead.
04 December 2011, 11:21 PM
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Actually, I don't agree. I've had 6 Imprezas now, all classics, 3 x Sti's, 2 x Wrx's and my current Turbo 2000. All have been various stages of tune and none of them ever had any problems (touch wood!!). I think most of the problems stem from the fact that people bolt parts on without realising that they need to be mapped.
You only have to look on Ebay to see just how many classics there are for sale that have done over 100k miles. And there are plenty on here that are running more power reliably. Of course you will always get people posting up with engine problems, but this is a huge community. There's plenty of people that only post once they have a problem, so there's many more happy classic owners out there who don't feel the need to post as their cars are running fine.
You only have to look on Ebay to see just how many classics there are for sale that have done over 100k miles. And there are plenty on here that are running more power reliably. Of course you will always get people posting up with engine problems, but this is a huge community. There's plenty of people that only post once they have a problem, so there's many more happy classic owners out there who don't feel the need to post as their cars are running fine.
04 December 2011, 11:26 PM
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For me the classic is well the classic Subaru shape lol but having said they are getting older but look around and u will find a minter,as for reliability it's pot luck just like Any other make in my opinion!
Last edited by STEVEBOXER; 05 December 2011 at 01:57 PM.
04 December 2011, 11:31 PM
#12
Actually, I don't agree. I've had 6 Imprezas now, all classics, 3 x Sti's, 2 x Wrx's and my current Turbo 2000. All have been various stages of tune and none of them ever had any problems (touch wood!!). I think most of the problems stem from the fact that people bolt parts on without realising that they need to be mapped.
You only have to look on Ebay to see just how many classics there are for sale that have done over 100k miles. And there are plenty on here that are running more power reliably. Of course you will always get people posting up with engine problems, but this is a huge community. There's plenty of people that only post once they have a problem, so there's many more happy classic owners out there who don't feel the need to post as their cars are running fine.
You only have to look on Ebay to see just how many classics there are for sale that have done over 100k miles. And there are plenty on here that are running more power reliably. Of course you will always get people posting up with engine problems, but this is a huge community. There's plenty of people that only post once they have a problem, so there's many more happy classic owners out there who don't feel the need to post as their cars are running fine.
Ive had five now with no bother at all
05 December 2011, 07:55 AM
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Some great advice there, is it going to be a daily driver or for some fun at the weekend? Just asking because there are some great cars out there at the moment, it's a buyers market for sure.
05 December 2011, 08:20 AM
#14
Rust is the biggest problem on the rear arches under the petrol flap
No real rust problems apart from that
Sigma alarms can start to stick on so that's a potential £300 replacement
Replace the maff sensor every three years
Clutch is about £400
Tyres are £320-£400
Petrol £80 to fill up and 200-250 per tank.
Not many standard ones left now
Don't pay over the odds price for those with many mods as they are worth nothing second hand
Leather interior tends to wear badly on the bolsters and is £100 repair
No real rust problems apart from that
Sigma alarms can start to stick on so that's a potential £300 replacement
Replace the maff sensor every three years
Clutch is about £400
Tyres are £320-£400
Petrol £80 to fill up and 200-250 per tank.
Not many standard ones left now
Don't pay over the odds price for those with many mods as they are worth nothing second hand
Leather interior tends to wear badly on the bolsters and is £100 repair
05 December 2011, 09:31 AM
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classic
I am also on my sixth Impreza.No problems and have never had an engine let go, my current is WRX Bugeye running over 300 BHP with 73,000 miles and runs like a dream.Drive 300 miles/week mostly motorway.Agree some people bolt on mods and have not got a Scooby what they are doing,they deserve all the hassle with engine rebuilds etc.
05 December 2011, 09:47 AM
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Agree totally on the engine/mods comments. I have had 5 Scoobs and neer had a hint of an engine problem.
The issue is that for some reason the Scoob seems to attract more than its fair share of ***** ... for example you only have to look at the number of threads on here where people are complaining about their cars running badly yet they will not accept that the VTA dump valve they have fitted could be the problem 'cos it makes a nice noize innit'.
Mod them sensibly and carefully or just leave them standard and with regular servcing they will last as long as any other decent motor.
The issue is that for some reason the Scoob seems to attract more than its fair share of ***** ... for example you only have to look at the number of threads on here where people are complaining about their cars running badly yet they will not accept that the VTA dump valve they have fitted could be the problem 'cos it makes a nice noize innit'.
Mod them sensibly and carefully or just leave them standard and with regular servcing they will last as long as any other decent motor.
05 December 2011, 10:18 AM
#17
Excuse me if i sounded like it was all doom and gloom, as i love my subarus and i'm on my forth, but classics ARE old cars.
And you do need to know what you are doing with them, as they are not your run of the mill motor, get it wrong or buy a wrong un and what seemed like a cheap car becomes expensive, if i were you i would go for a newer car, like i did.
Do your research and remember buyer beware..
And you do need to know what you are doing with them, as they are not your run of the mill motor, get it wrong or buy a wrong un and what seemed like a cheap car becomes expensive, if i were you i would go for a newer car, like i did.
Do your research and remember buyer beware..
Last edited by ditchmyster; 05 December 2011 at 10:19 AM.
05 December 2011, 10:39 AM
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Yeah it's going to be a daily for me.
My plan is to sell my 2008 focus st which is worth around 10k release some cash to spend on the house and have a few grand saved and then buy a car for around 3k.
I've come to this due to loosing 3k on the value of my focus in less than a year so I thought if I bought a 3k Subaru which is a car that I've always wanted. And if it lasts for longer than a year and then blows up I've still not lost anything.
I'm starting to think new cars can also be moneypits.
I don't really rely on a car. I can walk to work of need be and am only doing around 10k miles a year. There seems to be some really nice classics for sale for very reasonable money.
My plan is to sell my 2008 focus st which is worth around 10k release some cash to spend on the house and have a few grand saved and then buy a car for around 3k.
I've come to this due to loosing 3k on the value of my focus in less than a year so I thought if I bought a 3k Subaru which is a car that I've always wanted. And if it lasts for longer than a year and then blows up I've still not lost anything.
I'm starting to think new cars can also be moneypits.
I don't really rely on a car. I can walk to work of need be and am only doing around 10k miles a year. There seems to be some really nice classics for sale for very reasonable money.
05 December 2011, 11:09 AM
#19
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Excuse me if i sounded like it was all doom and gloom, as i love my subarus and i'm on my forth, but classics ARE old cars.
And you do need to know what you are doing with them, as they are not your run of the mill motor, get it wrong or buy a wrong un and what seemed like a cheap car becomes expensive, if i were you i would go for a newer car, like i did.
Do your research and remember buyer beware..
And you do need to know what you are doing with them, as they are not your run of the mill motor, get it wrong or buy a wrong un and what seemed like a cheap car becomes expensive, if i were you i would go for a newer car, like i did.
Do your research and remember buyer beware..
Yeah it's going to be a daily for me.
My plan is to sell my 2008 focus st which is worth around 10k release some cash to spend on the house and have a few grand saved and then buy a car for around 3k.
I've come to this due to loosing 3k on the value of my focus in less than a year so I thought if I bought a 3k Subaru which is a car that I've always wanted. And if it lasts for longer than a year and then blows up I've still not lost anything.
I'm starting to think new cars can also be moneypits.
I don't really rely on a car. I can walk to work of need be and am only doing around 10k miles a year. There seems to be some really nice classics for sale for very reasonable money.
My plan is to sell my 2008 focus st which is worth around 10k release some cash to spend on the house and have a few grand saved and then buy a car for around 3k.
I've come to this due to loosing 3k on the value of my focus in less than a year so I thought if I bought a 3k Subaru which is a car that I've always wanted. And if it lasts for longer than a year and then blows up I've still not lost anything.
I'm starting to think new cars can also be moneypits.
I don't really rely on a car. I can walk to work of need be and am only doing around 10k miles a year. There seems to be some really nice classics for sale for very reasonable money.
05 December 2011, 11:51 AM
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I'll give you some advice chap, based on owning a classic and having driven a newage Impreza.
Classics are a fun car, a drivers car, a weekend toy to put a smile on your face. The newage (bugeye, blobeye etc) are a more solid car, a good all rounder, less rattles but more weight.
If I was buying a daily driver for 3k i'd be looking at what sort of Bugeye WRX I could pick up. I recently helped a friend buy a 2001 Bugeye as she wanted something to drive the kids to school in and go to work but something to take to meets, shows etc and have some fun in. We got a 2001 with 80k on the clock, 18" wheels, coilovers, de-cat exhaust and panel filter, brembo brakes, years MOT for £2400 and theres others out there for that money.
Classics are a fun car, a drivers car, a weekend toy to put a smile on your face. The newage (bugeye, blobeye etc) are a more solid car, a good all rounder, less rattles but more weight.
If I was buying a daily driver for 3k i'd be looking at what sort of Bugeye WRX I could pick up. I recently helped a friend buy a 2001 Bugeye as she wanted something to drive the kids to school in and go to work but something to take to meets, shows etc and have some fun in. We got a 2001 with 80k on the clock, 18" wheels, coilovers, de-cat exhaust and panel filter, brembo brakes, years MOT for £2400 and theres others out there for that money.
05 December 2011, 06:11 PM
#23
i used to have a 54 blob wrx with ppp but sold it and am now in a 1995 classic wrx wagon with 16g, 3 inch system etc and i use mine as a daily driver.
in my opinion the newage was starting to bore me a little but every drive into work puts a smile on my face with the classic. dont think i would go newage again to be fair.
in my opinion the newage was starting to bore me a little but every drive into work puts a smile on my face with the classic. dont think i would go newage again to be fair.
05 December 2011, 06:54 PM
#24
I'll give you some advice chap, based on owning a classic and having driven a newage Impreza.
Classics are a fun car, a drivers car, a weekend toy to put a smile on your face. The newage (bugeye, blobeye etc) are a more solid car, a good all rounder, less rattles but more weight.
If I was buying a daily driver for 3k i'd be looking at what sort of Bugeye WRX I could pick up. I recently helped a friend buy a 2001 Bugeye as she wanted something to drive the kids to school in and go to work but something to take to meets, shows etc and have some fun in. We got a 2001 with 80k on the clock, 18" wheels, coilovers, de-cat exhaust and panel filter, brembo brakes, years MOT for £2400 and theres others out there for that money.
Classics are a fun car, a drivers car, a weekend toy to put a smile on your face. The newage (bugeye, blobeye etc) are a more solid car, a good all rounder, less rattles but more weight.
If I was buying a daily driver for 3k i'd be looking at what sort of Bugeye WRX I could pick up. I recently helped a friend buy a 2001 Bugeye as she wanted something to drive the kids to school in and go to work but something to take to meets, shows etc and have some fun in. We got a 2001 with 80k on the clock, 18" wheels, coilovers, de-cat exhaust and panel filter, brembo brakes, years MOT for £2400 and theres others out there for that money.
05 December 2011, 10:53 PM
#25
In my opinion dont buy a classic unless you are competent with a tool chest and a welder (jacking points , chassis outriggers and where the rear inner arch meets outer its hidden underneath the skirts) - mines was 2 owner serviced every 3000 miles all its life - it runs like a swiss watch but it hadnt seen grease since 1999 - ive been under it on and of for a year sorting this and replacing that.
Sounds awful dont it ,would i sell it ha would i **** - its love
Iain
Sounds awful dont it ,would i sell it ha would i **** - its love
Iain
05 December 2011, 11:08 PM
#26
I suggest you go back and look at newer cars and forget the classic unless it's a weekend car, the newest you will find is 12 yrs old and tbh they are money pits.
Trust me i know, there are good ones to be had but you want to up you budget and buy one for 5/6k that someone on here has spent a fortune on and then you stand a much better chance of trouble free motoring.
You can pick up a nice 04/54 car for 4k much better daily driver, i just bought a wrx wagon with prodrive performance pack and ap 4 pot front brakes for that.
You really need to know imprezas to get a good one for 2/3k and once you get the modding bug which you will, things get very expensive very quickly.
Trust me i know, there are good ones to be had but you want to up you budget and buy one for 5/6k that someone on here has spent a fortune on and then you stand a much better chance of trouble free motoring.
You can pick up a nice 04/54 car for 4k much better daily driver, i just bought a wrx wagon with prodrive performance pack and ap 4 pot front brakes for that.
You really need to know imprezas to get a good one for 2/3k and once you get the modding bug which you will, things get very expensive very quickly.
Plus the classic is the best shape and most fun to drive
Last edited by topshot; 05 December 2011 at 11:12 PM.
05 December 2011, 11:09 PM
#27
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ive had 3 classics now a v3 2000 turbo a v4 classic sport waggon and now a v1 import waggon ... love the old ones to bits and learn soo much from it
