Type r/p1 vs jdm sti/spec c
02 March 2012, 05:27 AM
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: South Wales
Posts: 1,201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Type r/p1 vs jdm sti/spec c
Anyone owned both and can give a real life view of which is quicker, easier to live with? Am toying with selling the p1 but would want something newer but just as fun?
02 March 2012, 07:42 AM
#3
Scooby Senior
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: MSOC
Posts: 2,120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not a type R/P1 but I have an RA having previously owned a blob spec C.
No comparison. The spec C was quicker, handled better, was easier to live with...
But it cost three times as much so it should have been
RickyA went hawk spec C to type R and I'm sure he'll give you the same opinion.
No comparison. The spec C was quicker, handled better, was easier to live with...
But it cost three times as much so it should have been
RickyA went hawk spec C to type R and I'm sure he'll give you the same opinion.
02 March 2012, 08:18 AM
#4
If I was to ever change my classic I'd go with either a S202 or a spec C of some sort.
But are these any quicker than a mildly tuned classic, I don't think so.
When I had a 2005 JDM STI through my hands I found that the close 6 speeder gave the feeling of being very quick when in reality it wasn't.
It was a far nicer car to drive compared to my noisy and bumpy classic though. Fun wise, mildly tuned classic wins hands down. The newage STI I was using had 340 bhp and a nice suspension set up but it didn't make me grin like my old classic does.
Have a chat with Tony, he owns both a classic and Spec C so has felt the comparrison first hand. I will warn you though, he is madly in love with the spec C.
But are these any quicker than a mildly tuned classic, I don't think so.
When I had a 2005 JDM STI through my hands I found that the close 6 speeder gave the feeling of being very quick when in reality it wasn't.
It was a far nicer car to drive compared to my noisy and bumpy classic though. Fun wise, mildly tuned classic wins hands down. The newage STI I was using had 340 bhp and a nice suspension set up but it didn't make me grin like my old classic does.
Have a chat with Tony, he owns both a classic and Spec C so has felt the comparrison first hand. I will warn you though, he is madly in love with the spec C.
02 March 2012, 09:11 AM
#5
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: 1600cc's of twin scroll fun :)
Posts: 25,565
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Rick will agree with my that even though the Type R is a great car 
its not as good, handles as well or as fun as a Spec C.
Matty, the thing with the twin scroll is you dont feel like you are going quickly, but no lighter out of the box classic is as quick as a standard Spec C and that includes the MY05 onwards JDM's, they are not far off the Spec C for performance, the odd 1/10th of a second here and there.
Lightly modded classic v standard Spec C, been there, if you are talking an exhaust and filter on a classic STI v a standard Spec C, then the Spec C is still quicker, especially in gear, it has an amazing power band, the avcs and twin scroll make it so drivable, especially from low down in the rev range where single scroll cars struggle with lag.
If you were to sell the P1 then it would have to be for either an S202 (even I would buy one of these, has to be in the peach colour though, very rare and there was only 1 in the uk) or a Spec C/MY05 onwards JDM STI, you wont regret it
Tony
PS, read the Type 25 v WR1 v P1 v Spec C here http://www.litimports.co.uk/press05.asp and before anyone goes on, this spec c wont have that quoted power output, it will be pretty much standard (i have had a standard Spec C with JDM map and now a standard Spec C with Litchfields UK fuel map and there is nothing in it power wise).
its not as good, handles as well or as fun as a Spec C.Matty, the thing with the twin scroll is you dont feel like you are going quickly, but no lighter out of the box classic is as quick as a standard Spec C and that includes the MY05 onwards JDM's, they are not far off the Spec C for performance, the odd 1/10th of a second here and there.
Lightly modded classic v standard Spec C, been there, if you are talking an exhaust and filter on a classic STI v a standard Spec C, then the Spec C is still quicker, especially in gear, it has an amazing power band, the avcs and twin scroll make it so drivable, especially from low down in the rev range where single scroll cars struggle with lag.
If you were to sell the P1 then it would have to be for either an S202 (even I would buy one of these, has to be in the peach colour though, very rare and there was only 1 in the uk) or a Spec C/MY05 onwards JDM STI, you wont regret it
Tony
PS, read the Type 25 v WR1 v P1 v Spec C here http://www.litimports.co.uk/press05.asp and before anyone goes on, this spec c wont have that quoted power output, it will be pretty much standard (i have had a standard Spec C with JDM map and now a standard Spec C with Litchfields UK fuel map and there is nothing in it power wise).
Last edited by TonyBurns; 02 March 2012 at 09:26 AM.
02 March 2012, 09:16 AM
#6
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: birmingham
Posts: 287
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've had a p1, a 2.5 wrx type r wrc and a bugeye jdm sti. I wasn't very keen on the p1 i think they are over priced/over rated. My type r was awesome loved every minute of driving it but sold it to buy the bug sti as i needed a 4 door due to an arrival of a new baby. I loved the drive of the bug sti but hated the front end looks but the power was different to the type r. where the type r had raw power the bug sti had the power but didn't throw you back in your seat like the type r but it was like a nice power and felt a bit more luxury to drive. I then had a uk blob sti which i loved driving until the engine blew up. So now i'm back to a classic sti but will eventually go for a blob jdm sti.
02 March 2012, 11:36 AM
#7
Iv had Hawk Spec C, Ver 6 Type R & now Widetrack blob JDM STi.
If you want fun in terms of a bit of tail out low speed drifting, the flat 4 unequal headers warble, the 2 door low slung seat of your pants feel than the Type R / P1 will deliver.
If you want easier to live with the Blob/ Hawk Spec C or JDM Sti are better than the Type R.
If you want to go quicker from point to point then Spec C is the car & almost as quick is the JDM Sti (with a few choice mods will be as quick or quicker than Spec C). They would leave the P1 / Type R within the first couple of corners on a circuit. (Bear in mind we'r talking standard out of the box or minimal stage 1 type mods). Don't get me wrong Iv had 3 of the cars above & thought the Type R was the most fun when your in the mood, but for brutal efficiency of its 345bhp / 380 ft/lbs torque, 6 speed close ratio gear box, Auto DCCD, Super short rack steering, twin scroll turbo & sublimely balanced handling, the Spec C would leave other big bhp cars for dead.
If you want fun in terms of a bit of tail out low speed drifting, the flat 4 unequal headers warble, the 2 door low slung seat of your pants feel than the Type R / P1 will deliver.
If you want easier to live with the Blob/ Hawk Spec C or JDM Sti are better than the Type R.
If you want to go quicker from point to point then Spec C is the car & almost as quick is the JDM Sti (with a few choice mods will be as quick or quicker than Spec C). They would leave the P1 / Type R within the first couple of corners on a circuit. (Bear in mind we'r talking standard out of the box or minimal stage 1 type mods). Don't get me wrong Iv had 3 of the cars above & thought the Type R was the most fun when your in the mood, but for brutal efficiency of its 345bhp / 380 ft/lbs torque, 6 speed close ratio gear box, Auto DCCD, Super short rack steering, twin scroll turbo & sublimely balanced handling, the Spec C would leave other big bhp cars for dead.
Trending Topics
02 March 2012, 01:01 PM
#8
I've had a P1, 2.5L STI and have just bought a hawkeye Spec C.
It really is very simple.
The P1 and 2.5L are both nice cars but the Spec C is several classes above. There really is no comparison.
The 2.5L has lots of lovely torque, but it's like driving a turbo diesel - it runs out of puff by about 5.5k and I found mine quite laggy, with poor throttle response from the drive by wire throttle. As standard the handling wasn't much good either - vague steering and a ride that managed to be firm on the straight bits and rolly in the corners. A few choice whiteline bits can improve matters, but there's a limit to what you can acheive without changing the rack and struts, which is monstrously expensive.
The P1 has a lovely top end but no guts at low revs. I also found it very laggy; it just felt old fashioned. The steering and suspension all felt pretty whooly too, even though mine was in very good condition. Good ride and damping, but severely lacking in excitement and edge when you wanted to push on.
The Spec C has a genuinely incredible engine. Mine is "only" running a 345 / 340 map with a miltek 3" exhaust but it's iiiiiiincredibly smooth, idling at just over 600 rpm and pulling very cleanly from very low down in the rev range. It must have one of the broadest usable powerbands in the known universe, which means it's much quicker than it's on-paper stats would have you beleive. Neither my standard P1 nor my mapped 2.5L would've had a chance.
A good Spec might cost twice as much as a decent UK STI or P1 but it's absolutely worth it.
It really is very simple.
The P1 and 2.5L are both nice cars but the Spec C is several classes above. There really is no comparison.
The 2.5L has lots of lovely torque, but it's like driving a turbo diesel - it runs out of puff by about 5.5k and I found mine quite laggy, with poor throttle response from the drive by wire throttle. As standard the handling wasn't much good either - vague steering and a ride that managed to be firm on the straight bits and rolly in the corners. A few choice whiteline bits can improve matters, but there's a limit to what you can acheive without changing the rack and struts, which is monstrously expensive.
The P1 has a lovely top end but no guts at low revs. I also found it very laggy; it just felt old fashioned. The steering and suspension all felt pretty whooly too, even though mine was in very good condition. Good ride and damping, but severely lacking in excitement and edge when you wanted to push on.
The Spec C has a genuinely incredible engine. Mine is "only" running a 345 / 340 map with a miltek 3" exhaust but it's iiiiiiincredibly smooth, idling at just over 600 rpm and pulling very cleanly from very low down in the rev range. It must have one of the broadest usable powerbands in the known universe, which means it's much quicker than it's on-paper stats would have you beleive. Neither my standard P1 nor my mapped 2.5L would've had a chance.
A good Spec might cost twice as much as a decent UK STI or P1 but it's absolutely worth it.
02 March 2012, 02:18 PM
#9
Would agree with the above, ive had both a STI5 Type R and currently have a hawkeye spec C (although no longer standard in spec 
)
My Type R even at only 300bhp (de-cat and remap) would and did leave most cars for dead, but the poorer brakes and the slightly less tight chassis meant you didnt have as much confidence in the bends, albeit loads of fun.
Whereas in the Spec C, the better handling (suspension and wider track as standard), the 6 speed with shorter ratios the a UK STI, quicker rack, twin scroll and better brakes (will slightly better brakes) all round makes it a better car, probably one of the best drivers car ive ever driven.
I let my friend drive it out on track on sunday who owns a 550 bhp 996 turbo, and he said bar the brakes it would leave his 911 for dead in most scenarios. It certainly showed a clean pair of heels to the 997 GT3RS on sunday, but then again maybe it was the driver?
Hope this helps you out
Mel
)My Type R even at only 300bhp (de-cat and remap) would and did leave most cars for dead, but the poorer brakes and the slightly less tight chassis meant you didnt have as much confidence in the bends, albeit loads of fun.
Whereas in the Spec C, the better handling (suspension and wider track as standard), the 6 speed with shorter ratios the a UK STI, quicker rack, twin scroll and better brakes (will slightly better brakes
) all round makes it a better car, probably one of the best drivers car ive ever driven.I let my friend drive it out on track on sunday who owns a 550 bhp 996 turbo, and he said bar the brakes it would leave his 911 for dead in most scenarios. It certainly showed a clean pair of heels to the 997 GT3RS on sunday
, but then again maybe it was the driver?Hope this helps you out
Mel
02 March 2012, 02:29 PM
#10
Mel - what sort of mods does your Spec C have?
Surely a standard Spec C couldn't touch a 550bhp 996 turbo...
I'm surprised you've not got on well with the brakes. Have you tried Pagid RS4-2 pads? Had these on my 2.5L STI and they transformed the brakes.
Surely a standard Spec C couldn't touch a 550bhp 996 turbo...
I'm surprised you've not got on well with the brakes. Have you tried Pagid RS4-2 pads? Had these on my 2.5L STI and they transformed the brakes.
02 March 2012, 03:49 PM
#13
MadUsa1 - take a look at my garage the full list of mods are in there.
So to answer you question, no a standard Spec C wouldnt have a hope of keeping up with a 550bhp 996 turbo.
Already have the braketech discs and orange stuff pads all round but still not that great when trying to pull up from 135mph on the back straight at snetterton!!
So will have to bite the bullet and go for a brake upgrade, thinking along the lines of a k-sport 8 pot 330mm front brake upgrade.
Would like to go 356mm, but then would mean having to get rid of my set of 17's wheels that i use on track.
So to answer you question, no a standard Spec C wouldnt have a hope of keeping up with a 550bhp 996 turbo.
Already have the braketech discs and orange stuff pads all round but still not that great when trying to pull up from 135mph on the back straight at snetterton!!
So will have to bite the bullet and go for a brake upgrade, thinking along the lines of a k-sport 8 pot 330mm front brake upgrade.
Would like to go 356mm, but then would mean having to get rid of my set of 17's wheels that i use on track.
02 March 2012, 03:53 PM
#14
Scooby Senior
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Club Chairman - West Mids Imprezas
Posts: 8,889
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MadUsa1 - take a look at my garage the full list of mods are in there.
So to answer you question, no a standard Spec C wouldnt have a hope of keeping up with a 550bhp 996 turbo.
Already have the braketech discs and orange stuff pads all round but still not that great when trying to pull up from 135mph on the back straight at snetterton!!
So will have to bite the bullet and go for a brake upgrade, thinking along the lines of a k-sport 8 pot 330mm front brake upgrade.
Would like to go 356mm, but then would mean having to get rid of my set of 17's wheels that i use on track.
So to answer you question, no a standard Spec C wouldnt have a hope of keeping up with a 550bhp 996 turbo.
Already have the braketech discs and orange stuff pads all round but still not that great when trying to pull up from 135mph on the back straight at snetterton!!
So will have to bite the bullet and go for a brake upgrade, thinking along the lines of a k-sport 8 pot 330mm front brake upgrade.
Would like to go 356mm, but then would mean having to get rid of my set of 17's wheels that i use on track.
02 March 2012, 04:45 PM
#17
Mel Im thinking off either AP 6 pots or might first try Performance Friction 2 piece disks & pads first. Braking at Snetterton was ok with 340bhp but after 4 laps the one piece grooved disks and EBC Ndx pads were fading badly. With your 460bhp I would go for AP 6pots. Budgie with his AP's was braking hard lap after lap with no brake fade what so ever & immense stopping power from what ever speed.
02 March 2012, 04:49 PM
#18
Think your probably right guys, AP's are the daddys when it comes to brakes!
Do you reckon there would be much difference in stopping performance from the 330mm to the 356mm kits? as would ideally like to keep my track rims if possible.
Anyone one know a place selling the AP kits cheap?
Do you reckon there would be much difference in stopping performance from the 330mm to the 356mm kits? as would ideally like to keep my track rims if possible.
Anyone one know a place selling the AP kits cheap?
02 March 2012, 04:55 PM
#19
Scooby Senior
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Club Chairman - West Mids Imprezas
Posts: 8,889
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm running the 356 kit from RCM and have never tried the 330's, however AP racing themselves stated there wasn't much difference tbh. Whichever you go for, they are both awesome, AP is AP. I stamped mine the other day and it physically hurt!
The two piece PF disks are good but are no comparison (no offence intended)
The two piece PF disks are good but are no comparison (no offence intended)
02 March 2012, 04:57 PM
#20
I'm running the 356 kit from RCM and have never tried the 330's, however AP racing themselves stated there wasn't much difference tbh. Whichever you go for, they are both awesome, AP is AP. I stamped mine the other day and it physically hurt!
The two piece PF disks are good but are no comparison (no offence intended)
The two piece PF disks are good but are no comparison (no offence intended)
02 March 2012, 06:23 PM
#21
Scooby Regular
PF discs are fine for road and track use. If you're never going to hit the track hard, I would say you're wasting your money buying AP's - you don't need them imo.
Like most things it's horses for courses though.
Like most things it's horses for courses though.
02 March 2012, 06:54 PM
#23
Scooby Senior
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Club Chairman - West Mids Imprezas
Posts: 8,889
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A lad in my club has got them (340bhp blob sti) and i drove the car on the road, i was impressed! 800quid or circa 2k choice is your bud either way its an improvement
either way its an improvement
02 March 2012, 08:58 PM
#24
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Cas Vegas
Posts: 7,833
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There's a couple of pairs of AP's on flebay at the mo. one set are 6pots with 356 discs and the other set are 4pots for 330s but no discs.
I bought my APs from eBay I then bought new pads, braided hoses and 330 rotors and cost me £900 all in.
I bought my APs from eBay I then bought new pads, braided hoses and 330 rotors and cost me £900 all in.
02 March 2012, 09:20 PM
#25
02 March 2012, 10:18 PM
#26
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: oop north in a spec-c.Now sold and starting on a classic ra track/sprint/road car
Posts: 2,536
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
7 Posts
Well I must have gone backwards then my old hawk spec-c Ra out of the box with a few mods made it an incredible car on track and on the road but i missed the rawness that you get with a classic so thought I would mix them both together on the new car and get the best of both worlds
my old hawk spec-c Ra out of the box with a few mods made it an incredible car on track and on the road but i missed the rawness that you get with a classic so thought I would mix them both together on the new car and get the best of both worlds
02 March 2012, 11:19 PM
#28
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (25)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: MSOC
Posts: 3,135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They've got 6 speed g boxes, brembos , and other bits which you need have to buy, but do need for a classic, so you can materialise your cash somewhere else. The weight doesn't mean everything as proven , but i do agree a well setup classic is much more fun.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoVza...eature=related
02 March 2012, 11:33 PM
#29
Depends Matty, new age cars lak of soul, and i'm on a classics side, But. New age cars have much stiffer chasis form the factory and its an incredible 120% They've got 6 speed g boxes, brembos , and other bits which you need have to buy, but do need for a classic, so you can materialise your cash somewhere else. The weight doesn't mean everything as proven , but i do agree a well setup classic is much more fun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoVza...eature=related
They've got 6 speed g boxes, brembos , and other bits which you need have to buy, but do need for a classic, so you can materialise your cash somewhere else. The weight doesn't mean everything as proven , but i do agree a well setup classic is much more fun.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoVza...eature=related
Think what £8K / £10K can get you now in a classic.
My old classic for instance will give most newer cars a good run for there money, I'm lacking a 6 speeder but other than that I think I have a decent setup which if it ever came up for sale would be an awful lot less than £10K.
However, whereas you could use a newage everyday and get out feeling refreshed you couldn't do that in my old car. After an hour I've had enough, lol. Depends what you want from a car I suppose, mine is a Sunday car so the lack of refinement doesn't bother me. If however I needed to run it everyday then I'm the first to admit, a well specced classic is not the correct choice.
Last edited by MattyB1983; 02 March 2012 at 11:37 PM.
02 March 2012, 11:44 PM
#30
Adding £8k a classic doesnt get you much, tried that and stopped mid way, sold up and went back to newage jdm sti. 6 speed Gearbox, diffs are £3k, Ecu and related £1k, brakes and bushes £1k, then youv got to tidy up old coil packs, electrics ancillaries, suspension. There's not much left of your £8k to start on a forged engine!