EddScott

Having a bit of think about getting another Impreza. I would prefer a hawk as I don't really like blobs - I'd go for a Prodrive Bug over a blob but thats just me.

Anyway, the hawks have 2.5s and there doesn't seem much love for them - why?

Doesn't the 2.5 offer a better drive over a 2.0? What should be done to a 2.5 when you first purchase it? If it does pop whats the repair bill going to be?

Ta

urban

iTrader: (1)

Having had a remapped 2.0 STI and a 2.5 330S, I'd say the remapped 2.0 was the sharper of the two.
Both with similar power in my case, the 2.5 is nice to drive, bags of torque, but being lower revving, the redline approaches very quickly.
With all the stories you hear about the 2.5, I'd be inclined to find a car that has already been forged.
There are a number of well sorted 2.5's out there if you look.

Fixing a 2.5 I believe is in the region of 3K - but that all depends on how healthy the engine is in the first place (i.e. has it gone bang, or is it still working)

LuckyWelshchap

Nothing like experience, so helpful advice there I'd say.

I think the expression 'eyes open' is a very good idea.

From the countless threads on here they have, at worst, lots of potential and at best (when forged etc.) they are awesome apparently.

I always say if you get one, if it's not already forged then get one £1-2K within budget and salt a bit away. If it doesn't go before you sell it then there's some nice extra cash for whatever.

If it does, you'll recoup some of it via its increased value.

Alan Jeffery

When we've fixed them, they stay fixed!

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Hi Edd,

Having driven the 2.0 2,0 Twin scroll and the 2.5, the 2.5 is the best engine for a road based car. It's just pulls from nothing and has noticeably more torque than the 2.0ltr. Bob mapped mine to a safe 350/380 and it was a very convincing performance car. The trade off for the low boost threshold and bigger torque is that really the engine needs a bigger turbo as things become a bit flat at higher RPMs, so if you like the more traditional: "wait for it ......whoa!" of a Turbo car, then you might prefer the 2.0 ltr. No point in denying it, the 2.5 engine has weaknesses though, chief among them the pistons and the HG. I personally wouldn't buy one that I wasn't prepared to get forged.

A forged 2.5 with a proper turbo e.g. an SC 46 is a thing of beauty though.

thenewgalaxy

A forged 2.5 is a beautiful thing. With a set of coil overs and a set of six pots from AP you make a wayward car with a dodgy engine into an absolute performance monster that'll eat most cars alive in a straight line and demolish just about anything on a demanding B-road.

The above statement applies to both Hawk and Hatch and is my opinion.

Tidgy

my advice would be to find a hawk wrx or sti with a blown engineand have a forged engine put in so your all good.

theres a comment above about 2.0 being shrper than the 2.5, i suspect thats more how it feels rather than actual performance.

my old classic was very much nothing nothing nothing, goes off like a stabbed rat, my hawk doesnt feel as quick, untill you look down at the speedo lol i think its just the 2.5 applies power in a more gradual way, spool wise the profiles of my new and old one are very similar.

hawl wrx forged 2.5, sc46





classic 2.0, vf34

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

it will feel quick when you comedy brakes fail tidgy

Tidgy

hahaha, just have to drive it sensibly instead of like a tool

also once you start hitting this sort of power the amount you can safley use it gets lower and lower.

EddScott

Well I think I'd only really like a hawk STI if I were to get another Impreza so I'll just have to bite the bullet if it ever let go.

Just need to decide if I really want to change and prepared to pay the extra running costs. I've got an 07 A4 TDI170 Avant which frankly costs bugger all to run and being mapped its not tediously slow. Its just not "there" for me.

I have considered an S4 of the same B7 model as they seem quite cheap to buy for what you get but finding a nice manual isn't easy.

frayz

iTrader: (7)

Built 2.5s are monsters.
Just a shame all 2.5s are not built equal.

Mine was torque limited and capped at 573bhp, on a non billet 35R. Spools quicker on the road and is a mighty quick A to B weapon.

urban

iTrader: (1)

My old 2.0 STI was remapped by Andy Forrest to approx 340bhp with similar torque.
It was definitely sharper than the 330S I had, although you could say the 2.0 was more work in comparison to the more torquey 330S

chopperman

These threads are becoming more common than the "what oil" or "what DV". This very question is being debated on at least 3 thread on the first page.

DantheMan2605

Ill hold you to that

You'll receive a phonecall next week at some point. Need to get rid of this running in map and get a real one.

Tyres, headers wrapped and down pipe needed first

Tidgy

was the 330s custom mapped or just standard map?

Osimabu

iTrader: (2)

If the OP wants a Hawk but not the potential time bomb, how about this one:

https://www.scoobynet.com/subaru-444...wkeye-sti.html

Best of both worlds there.

Tidgy

personaly i prefer the 2.5 once built properly

scooby2.5maz

iTrader: (16)

urban

iTrader: (1)

Standard map just

thenewgalaxy

Frayz your car is a beast

Tidgy

come on mate, you know yourself comparing a custom and standard map is like night and day

Turbodanc

iTrader: (1)

When i was looking for a scooby i was researching about the 2.5's and as always they get such bad reviews and people saying they will go bang etc...

I decided to ignore these threads and went for a 2.5WRX that had been tuned to 330 bhp properly by scoobyclinic, Bigger turbo etc.. and i have not had any trouble with it at all and it drives superb.

Its just like with Cavalier turbo's, everyone will say "The transfer box will break, 4x4 is crap etc etc..." I can assure you if looked after they are just fine like every car.

So i say go and test drive a few and see whats out there, if you find a nice one that you want and its healthy then buy it. If you look after the car it will look after you.

53

iTrader: (41)

JDM Hawks only, UK DBW is shyte IMHO 2.5 is a great drive no question but the 2.0ltr is a far better experience especially in JDM form.

Suberman

Hi Edd,

I too have driven a blob UK 2.0L STI, hawk 2.5L STI, 2.5L hatch STI and a hawk2.0L JDM STI Spec C.

With the 2.5L, you feel like it is a fast road car (which i believe is what Subaru developed it as anyway). You get loads of torque low down and it doesn't rely on boost as much as the 2.0L, if you know what i mean. The whole drive feels more mature, less frentic. All this is down to the less peaky power delivery, longer ratios and lower rev limit. There is less cammy feel to it as well. It doesn't rev up like a 2.0L which i think is what some people refer to as less sharp.

Yes, the weakness is like what has been stated, HG, ringland etc. Less potential from engine etc. But these are not something that has been identified for a long time which means you know what is the fix and possibly the estimated cost. It's not something which you may or may not know.

Although i've never driven one like that, but i believe the 2.5L with a simple rebuilt and a tune is a serious road weapon, considering the torque on tap and from various dyno charts i've seen.

But like all things, one man's meat is another man's poison. Get a test drive if possible to compare.

So in my opinion, go in with eyes open.

Good luck!

Regards
Errol

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Here is another graph from a forged 2.5 with a proper turbo and supporting mods built by APi



Should pointy out that to get to this level, you're looking at more expenditure than just spending on forging the engine - it's the ancilliaries that add up!

Frayz: I'm guessing your block was pinned/CBD conversion mate, as ever tuner I've spoken to says don't go over 500 with the std 2.5 block?

frayz

iTrader: (7)

Yes my block is pinned.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Thought so. Really great figures there! The fantastic thing about the 2.5 is that you don't have to sacrifice spool and boost threshold nearly as much as on a 2.0 ltr to get those figures so that'll still be a really nice road car.

I think I'd seriously look into strengthening the 2.5 block if I were to get another build done as you've always gotta go up in terms of power and I'm guessing that even a CDB conversion/pinned 2.5 will be cheaper than trying to get a 2.2 block and going for the 2.35 conversion? When I was having my build done I think the pinned block etc was much less well proven in the UK and I needed to play it safe so just kept things in the late 400s.

Ns04

frayz

iTrader: (7)

The CDB inserts were not really available here n the UK when I pinned mine. However I know that Paul Blamire had run a pinned block successfully in TA at over 640lbsft.
I think if I were to do it again I'd have a CDB insert by AS Performance. I know they're proving exceptionally well in competition cars and some very very fast 6 cylinder applications.

I like the way my 2.5 drives and the rate it spins through its rpm. Anyone who thinks a 2.5 is a lazy engine can come and experience mine.

I think the ultimate road combo would be a built 2.5 and a billet 30R.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Agree. Common misconception that 2.5s are Lazy. They rip through the gears with a proper turbo and supporting mods. A mate asked me if I had a short ratio box after I took him WOT though gears 1-4 and this is on a long legged Hawk UK box!! God knows what yours is like!!

I think some people refer to them as Lazy as they don't rev to 8k rpm like the JDMs unless you have the heads seen to etc....

As always, depends how much you want to spend!

6.5k peak on a well tuned 2.5 more than enough for most! I've told this story before, but after giving a mate with a 996 911 turbo a ride (mine is an SC46 turbo based conversion), he commented that my car was as fast as his (if not marginally faster) at one quarter the cost!

I'd be looking at the CDB from Alyn too. Seems like a comprehensive engineering solution to the weaker 2.5 block.

53

iTrader: (41)

It's very simple ... Built 2.5 = Win .... Factory 2.5 = Fail DBW = Fail in any Subaru application