Trackday claim for hitting another car.
20 September 2013 | 07:22 PM
#1
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From: The Fabulist Hunter
Trackday claim for hitting another car.
Came across this earlier..... http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/t...rack+day&mid=0
Basically
Two cars involved in a collision on a trackday, one of the drivers had trackday insurance the other did not. The insured driver makes a claim for the damage to his car for which the insurance company pays out, then the insurance company sues the other driver for 21k for which he is found liable..!
I know quite a few people on here participate in trackdays but how many of you bother with trackday insurance? In all my years of taking to the track, I can quite honestly say I've never bothered with cover for the day.....why?....because I know the risks if it goes pear shaped and fully accept the outcome whether an incident is caused by me or another driver.
If trackdays were not already expensive enough, compulsory insurance could put it out of reach of many track heads.
Basically
Two cars involved in a collision on a trackday, one of the drivers had trackday insurance the other did not. The insured driver makes a claim for the damage to his car for which the insurance company pays out, then the insurance company sues the other driver for 21k for which he is found liable..!
I know quite a few people on here participate in trackdays but how many of you bother with trackday insurance? In all my years of taking to the track, I can quite honestly say I've never bothered with cover for the day.....why?....because I know the risks if it goes pear shaped and fully accept the outcome whether an incident is caused by me or another driver.
If trackdays were not already expensive enough, compulsory insurance could put it out of reach of many track heads.
20 September 2013 | 07:49 PM
#3
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From: Birmingham
Came across this earlier..... http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/t...rack+day&mid=0
Basically
Two cars involved in a collision on a trackday, one of the drivers had trackday insurance the other did not. The insured driver makes a claim for the damage to his car for which the insurance company pays out, then the insurance company sues the other driver for 21k for which he is found liable..!
I know quite a few people on here participate in trackdays but how many of you bother with trackday insurance? In all my years of taking to the track, I can quite honestly say I've never bothered with cover for the day.....why?....because I know the risks if it goes pear shaped and fully accept the outcome whether an incident is caused by me or another driver.
If trackdays were not already expensive enough, compulsory insurance could put it out of reach of many track heads.
Basically
Two cars involved in a collision on a trackday, one of the drivers had trackday insurance the other did not. The insured driver makes a claim for the damage to his car for which the insurance company pays out, then the insurance company sues the other driver for 21k for which he is found liable..!
I know quite a few people on here participate in trackdays but how many of you bother with trackday insurance? In all my years of taking to the track, I can quite honestly say I've never bothered with cover for the day.....why?....because I know the risks if it goes pear shaped and fully accept the outcome whether an incident is caused by me or another driver.
If trackdays were not already expensive enough, compulsory insurance could put it out of reach of many track heads.
If this start being the trend then track day organisers might have to stipulate that the track is open ton'uninsured' cars only.
20 September 2013 | 07:51 PM
#4
Track day insurance isn't that expensive esp when you have spend 15k plus on a build?
I always thought about what would happen if some one in a £500 car they bought for a jolly boys outting, took out my car, what would the insurance say if they were uninsured, so gives a bit more peace of mind lol as usually prefer just me on a track, I.e rally / hill climb etc
I always thought about what would happen if some one in a £500 car they bought for a jolly boys outting, took out my car, what would the insurance say if they were uninsured, so gives a bit more peace of mind lol as usually prefer just me on a track, I.e rally / hill climb etc
20 September 2013 | 08:00 PM
#6
I have trackday insurance to protect me from idiots rather than to mitigate my talent 
But to go after the fault drivers is stupid given all the disclaimers you sign ? 
20 September 2013 | 08:00 PM
#7
this is b/s imho
i understand its the law to have insurance on a public highway and the police/courts can uphold this against you
on a race track etc there is no minimum requirement for RTA cover (tpo) so how can they enforce this
stinks this does
i understand its the law to have insurance on a public highway and the police/courts can uphold this against you
on a race track etc there is no minimum requirement for RTA cover (tpo) so how can they enforce this
stinks this does
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20 September 2013 | 08:06 PM
#8
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From: The Fabulist Hunter
Track day insurance isn't that expensive esp when you have spend 15k plus on a build?
I always thought about what would happen if some one in a £500 car they bought for a jolly boys outting, took out my car, what would the insurance say if they were uninsured, so gives a bit more peace of mind lol as usually prefer just me on a track, I.e rally / hill climb etc
I always thought about what would happen if some one in a £500 car they bought for a jolly boys outting, took out my car, what would the insurance say if they were uninsured, so gives a bit more peace of mind lol as usually prefer just me on a track, I.e rally / hill climb etc
Last edited by jayallen; 20 September 2013 at 08:14 PM.
20 September 2013 | 08:08 PM
#9
Either all trackdays should be for uninsured drivers, or all drivers sign contracts between each other, or insurance companies invent 3rd party track cover or else don't admit liability / apologise etc in case of an accident.
Ps I won't be going close to any expensive exotica on track in future.
Ps I won't be going close to any expensive exotica on track in future.
Last edited by rickya; 20 September 2013 at 08:27 PM.
20 September 2013 | 08:12 PM
#10
Also my first point about all drivers being uninsured on a trackday is irrelevant, as just as the Insurance company has later tried to recover costs through local courts, the driver himself could have done it if he was uninsured.
20 September 2013 | 08:19 PM
#11
I always assumed, rightly or wrongly (and I'm yet to do a track day so you can decide which one I belong to!), that the insurance was for both parties like it was on the road i.e. fully comp.
If I turn up in my £5k-£15k car and make a mistake and hit a £100k "supercar", is it really just their tough luck and I can just say sorry? Shouldn't I/them have some insurance that covers the risk and subsequent outlay? I wouldn't want to be personally responsible for a £100k bill...
If I turn up in my £5k-£15k car and make a mistake and hit a £100k "supercar", is it really just their tough luck and I can just say sorry? Shouldn't I/them have some insurance that covers the risk and subsequent outlay? I wouldn't want to be personally responsible for a £100k bill...
Last edited by MDS_WRX; 20 September 2013 at 08:30 PM. Reason: Spelling!
20 September 2013 | 08:21 PM
#12
Track day insurance is only to cover your own car. But now it seems we may be held personally liable if found negligent. Whether you have track day insurance or not is irrelevant in this case. You either make sure you don't hit another car, but if you do, don't admit responsibility, get some witnesses and a good lawyer!
Last edited by rickya; 20 September 2013 at 08:24 PM.
20 September 2013 | 08:26 PM
#13
The worrying thing is that as track day insurance only covers your own car, if you collide with someone else you may be sued even if insured. Iv read the thread on Pistonheads & surely if the guy who was sued for hitting the Catheram was deemed negligent, then the Catheram driver was even more negligent for spinning off in the first place.
This is a big blow for track days, why can't race teams sue each other as the circumstances are similar in most rece incidents.
This is a big blow for track days, why can't race teams sue each other as the circumstances are similar in most rece incidents.
20 September 2013 | 08:28 PM
#14
Playing devils advocate though, is that such a bad thing? In my made up "£5k-£15k vs £100k" scenario, shouldn't there be some insurance that the 100k car takes out to cover them against someone wiping them out? If it's a pure accident then they might just be unlucky, but what if some novice (like me
) accidentally takes them out due to poor driving skills? If i was you in the £100k car, wouldn't you want some form of protection?
20 September 2013 | 08:42 PM
#19
Ok, I didn't know that, thanks.
Playing devils advocate though, is that such a bad thing? In my made up "£5k-£15k vs £100k" scenario, shouldn't there be some insurance that the 100k car takes out to cover them against someone wiping them out? If it's a pure accident then they might just be unlucky, but what if some novice (like me) accidentally takes them out due to poor driving skills?
If i was you in the £100k car, wouldn't you want some form of protection?
Playing devils advocate though, is that such a bad thing? In my made up "£5k-£15k vs £100k" scenario, shouldn't there be some insurance that the 100k car takes out to cover them against someone wiping them out? If it's a pure accident then they might just be unlucky, but what if some novice (like me
) accidentally takes them out due to poor driving skills? If i was you in the £100k car, wouldn't you want some form of protection?
20 September 2013 | 08:46 PM
#20
20 September 2013 | 08:48 PM
#21
I live local to combe and i guess one of the most cars i have seen have an off are imprezas lol when the drivers run out of talent
Plus generally on the road too. Or maybe its just when im driving lol
20 September 2013 | 08:48 PM
#22
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From: The Fabulist Hunter
This is very interesting, taking from moris.co.uk....A trackday insurance company
What is third party insurance?
As defined by the BIBA Jargon Buster a "third party" is simply a person claiming against another person or body who is described as the Insured (policyholder). In insurance terminology the first party is the insurer and the second party is the insured person, so the one doing the claiming is the "third" party.
Third Party can include damage to someone's property (car, armco, track, building) or bodily injury - and that is anything from minor cuts and bruises to death!!.
There is growing questioning amongst trackday aficionados about the issue of third party liability cover. Questions we get asked are typically:
1. Am I covered?
2. Do the organisers cover me? and
3. Where can I buy trackday third party liability cover?
The answer in respect of the first two questions is almost certainly a resounding "No" and for the third questions the answer is "No where". In other words you have no cover and there is no insurer in the land who is regularly known to be providing this cover either. The next question that follows is "what happens if....?" and the short answer is cross everything and hope.... that sounds really scary right? - so lets put this into perspective for a moment...
Everyone out there is in the same boat - you are just as likely to end up being hit by someone else and have no real recourse against them either - so (1) make sure your car/bike IS insured of course (2) more importantly, make sure YOU are insured and take advantage of our personal Accident optional extras where you can insure for up to £100,000 for death (Yep - it sometimes can and does happen) and permanent total disablement.
So why don't motor insurers provide this cover? Much for the same reason many motor insurers wont cover trackday damage. There is an increased "risk" for starters, but also on a trackday you are driving / riding outside of all the "norms" of the public highway. Speed Limits, Cornering Speeds, Braking Distances etc are all abandoned in the quest for your days fun and travelling at speed outside of the framework of regular highway use effectively removes the comfort of the "known" factors for insurers.
So is there any protection? Well tale comfort from this. In a test ruling at Wolverhampton County Court. His Honour Judge Mitchell concluded that if someone crashes into you on a trackday, even if it is clearly their fault - then tough! The judgement followed a case where a driver under tuition collided with a track day participant who then sued for damages. In essence the judge's ruling is that anyone participating on a trackday is aware of the potential risks involved and has a choice of not driving on to the circuit. (Source: Circuitdriver.com, April 2007).
The disclaimers that are signed do have a bearing on the acceptance of the fact that everyone on the track has VOLUNTEERED to be there is the first place. No one is making you are anyone else get out there and no one is encouraging you to driver beyond speed you feel comfortable with. Race circuits are however an alien environment and can feel strange and wide open circuits like Silverstone can actually feel quite pedestrian - until it all starts going wrong. So, take responsibility for yourself, protect yourself and your machinery.
20 September 2013 | 08:49 PM
#23
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From: Wherever I park my car, that's my home
If you cant afford to fix your car in the event of a crash then you take out track day insurance for your own car not anyone else's. Track day insurance is expensive when you consider it's for the day & if your car is worth 100k you wouldn't go on a track day as they would not cover you for a fair price. Race drivers can't claim offeach other so the same should apply to track days. Unless all track day insurance is fully comp then it should be banned & all drivers sign disclaimers not to sue anyone.
21 September 2013 | 08:49 AM
#26
+1 .... and still never had one ... puts me to the edge, more composed , more challenging ...
21 September 2013 | 10:34 AM
#28
My understanding of the insurance is IF in case of an accident you are covered by the terms of the policy you have taken out. So if you was to be hit by an uninsured driver your car wont be just an expensive heap of metal that could cost a fortune to repair or replace! I mean if you was driving out on the public highway and an un-insured driver was to hit your car, would you sit there and think "Oh well these things happen" and not make a claim against the other driver?
21 September 2013 | 10:44 AM
#29
My understanding of the insurance is IF in case of an accident you are covered by the terms of the policy you have taken out. So if you was to be hit by an uninsured driver your car wont be just an expensive heap of metal that could cost a fortune to repair or replace! I mean if you was driving out on the public highway and an un-insured driver was to hit your car, would you sit there and think "Oh well these things happen" and not make a claim against the other driver?
21 September 2013 | 10:51 AM
#30
Surely the only way out of this potential legal whirlpool is for track day operators to insist that every participant carries their own insurance. Either that or your track day fee includes such insurance.