Had a minor service done at S&S late last year and at the time I had a brake warning light on my dash. Basically the service was carried out and the diagnosis of the fault was the sensor itself, so I left the replacement of the sensor as I was told the brakes were in good condition and it was clearly stated on the service invoice that the brakes had been inspected and cleaned.

So the light has been on since then, in which time I have covered 4000miles. The brakes began to grind yesterday, so I checked them, and bought pads for replacement which I tackled this morning. Upon stripping out the old pads, the inside ones were 3/4 worn and the outside pads are completely down to the metal, both sides (o/s and n/s). It turns out that the pistons were jammed in both calipers so I stripped them out and freed them up and fitted the new pads.

Get the car back on the road and the brake warning light has gone out! So basically, the diagnosis of S&S that the sensor was faulty is a load of crap as it is clearly now working. So was the warning light on because the pistons had jammed, brake pads low or the fluid reservoir was low? You tell me, but it wasn't the sensor as stated by S&S, there was a ****ing fault with my brakes for the last 4000miles, in a car in which my two kids travel in and I tow a 1400KG Caravan behind. I'm raging to say the least and won't be back.

Car's booked into Greer Motorsport on Tuesday for it's 90K Cambelt service and I'll be approaching S&S on Monday about this **** up.

Not happy, what if the car had gone straight through a junction with the kids in the back?

Rob.

 

The most likely suggestion for the brake warning light being on is low fluid level.
Fitting new pads will push the fluid back up into the reservoir.
Sticking pistons are more likely to happen on an older car due to salt, road grime or a perished piston seal. Sticking pistons can also happen because the brake pads have little material left and cause the piston to extend too far out of the caliper and hence jam as it isn't sitting "square" in the bore.
The pads may have been fine and serviceable at the time of servicing, though an advisory would usually be in order to say that the pads are due for replacement by the next service.

As for one side being more worn than the other, this depends on whether the caliper is a sliding caliper or a later twin piston type caliper. It's looking like the piston has "stuck" due to pad thickness, but without seeing it, i can't comment any further.

What has been unfortunate is that if the level (if that's what it was) was fine, then the light would have came on to warn you of low pad material.

 

I appreciate your wide diagnosis, the fluid reservior did rise after fitting the new pads, however, whatever the fault, be it brake pads low or reservoir low, it was on when the car went in to S&S for the service and they diagnosed it as a faulty sensor, which it clearly wasn't and stated on my service invoice that the brakes had been inspected and cleaned. They obviously didn't pick up on the fault. Bearing in mind, I paid £120 for essentially an oil change in order to keep up the dealer service history on the car, I find it unforgiveble.

The pistons are earlier sliding types and had new seal kits fitted just before I bought the car as stated within the service history.

Rob.

 

What sensor Rob?

handbrake?
fluid level?
pad level?

These all give the same warning light.

 

Who knows? There was no sensor within the pads or calipers when I changed them so can only assume that it was the fluid reservoir sensor and I don't have a sensor on the pads. The handbrake when on, has a seperate warning light on the dash. Car's a 1995 UK Turbo BTW.

Rob.

 

It looks like the problem has been related around the reservoir sensor then.

The thing is, you got the car serviced on Oct 20th 2006 (7 months ago) and the intermittent warning light started sometime earlier around the 5th October.
For something that's safety related and you're concerned about what could have happened to you or your family, why has it taken you so long to get it sorted??

I'm not condoning what S&S have relayed to you, but warning lights are there for a reason and shouldn't be ignored as you have unfortunately recently found out.

My advice, when you go in tomorrow, is to complain about the fact that new pads have had to be fitted in 4000 miles since the last service cause they were down to bare metal, though don't be surprised if they come up with "heavy braking use" etc (bear in mind you say you tow a caravan which will put additional loads on the brake pads"!) They should still have advised on estimated pad life left imo.

 

I've towed 3 times for a maximum of 150 miles in total in that time. The reason I ignored the light was because S&S told me it was the sensor was shot and my service invoice stated that the brakes had been inspected and cleaned, surely they would check the reservoir to make sure the fluid was fine? In fact I can honestly say that the fluid in the reservoir has never been less than halfway between full and low even when I changed the pads Saturday morning. I agree that warning lights are there for a reason and I took what I thought was expert advice from my local main dealer that the brakes had been checked as servicable and the warning was a ghost warning as the sensor was faulty.

Had I taken the advise of S&S at the time and replaced the sensor I would still have had a fault and be the cost of the sensor out of pocket.

Between the dates you quote for light coming on and the car going in for service, the car was not used, especially not with the kids in it, I took the wife's car to work. Part of the delay between getting the car serviced after this warning light coming on is taken up by having to book a date at S&S and wait for it to come along unless they have recently started next day servicing and a 24hour service booking line. Fortunately I acted upon the warning light quite sensibly I feel, but was told it was nothing to worry about, merely a replacement sensor required. I fulfilled my part of the bargain here and acted like a safe and responsible motorist, so why didn't S&S fulfil there end as a safe and responsible dealer.


Rob.

 

I have to say at this point Rob, that i'm not affiliated in any way with S&S, or indeed with any other garage, but do have extensive knowledge in how business's work. I'm on here replying to you, trying to give you helpful advice on a problem you have. Bear in mind i know nothing about you, or your car, i can only make comment based on what you've written on this bulletin board.

In your last reply you say you ignored the light because S&S said to you that the brakes were fine and a sensor had failed, so nothing to worry about.

Personally, it's something i would have repaired, so did they quote you for a new sensor?
If they didn't, why didn't you ask at the time how much it would cost to repair? or if they did and you winced at the price (I probably would! ), why didn't you try and source a replacement sensor over the coming months?

Up until your brake pads had worn down to nothing, you carried on blissfully unaware of anything untoward being wrong with the car, yet if you had sourced a replacement sensor at the time of the fault being "diagnosed", you would have found out pretty quickly that S&S had given you the wrong advice.

If S&S had changed the sensor, charged you for it, found out that it wasn't that, then topped up the brake fluid reservoir, you would have been blissfully unaware of what had went on in the workshop cause they would have quoted you a price to repair it, you would have accepted it and that would be the end of the story. However....
You are making an assumption that S&S would lie to you about having found out the sensor wasn't faulty after all. Who's to say they may have found out it wasn't a sensor after all, made an excuse or apology and gave you bill for the cost of the brake fluid top up or maybe even not charge at all? (despite the workshop time to find all that out). How would you have felt then? Pleased? Cause they had been totally honest with you and gave you an unexpected small (or no ) bill? Or still angry with them for incompetence?

Be honest now. I know my answer.

If it was the case that you were going to replace the sensor after purchasing the sensor from S&S and you subsequently found out it didn't cure the problem, then you would have recourse to get your money back and a further diagnosis made to find the cause of the warning light being on. At that point, you may have lost faith with S&S and decided to go elsewhere for correct diagnosis, or you may have given them a second chance. More than likely, S&S would have given you the offer to have a look at the car, there and then.
This is hypothetical of course, but is what i would expect of a company who has their customers interests as upmost in their minds.

You don't need to justify yourself to me about how you use your car or dates leading to the development of this problem. What has happened is that you haven't sourced the replacement sensor when it was advised to you, or indeed for some months after that advice was given.
For S&S to say there's nothing to worry about is correct, in that, at that time, your brakes were fine but wrong of them to suggest no replacement of the sensor as it is part of the safety warning system on the car which covers more areas than just brake fluid level. They should still have advised on estimated pad life left though. More so cause there was a faulty sensor.

 

Hmmmm i think S&S did offer a replacement As much as driving around witrh a faulty sensor is bad it doesn't sound like it should have taken that to notice the fault.

If they've stated that they inspected and cleaned the brakes at worst they should have noticed a very worn pad and beena advising that Rob get news ones fitted. No pad wears to the metal in 4000 miles even if occasionally towing.

To my mind they didn't do a proper inspection or recommend the safe option.

5t.