FlightMan

That this is has to be the way to go:

Robinson in goal.
Back 3 of Carrager Terry and Ferdinand.
Midfield of Beckham, Gerrard, Hargreaves, Lampard, A. Cole
Upfront Rooney and Crouch/Owen.

Those are the best 3 centre backs in England.
Hargreaves plays as the holding midielder for Bayern and Beckanbauer says he couldn't imagine Bayern without him. Thats enough for me. That allows Gerrard and Lampard the freedom to get forward. Ashley Cole and Becks are both savvy enough to know when to sit back.
England haven't lost a game Crouch has started and its 5 in 6 for him now. Rooney is just Rooney and if Owen gets fit thats any 2 from 3 as far as I'm concerned, depending on the opposition.

Maybe the players needs to "speak" to the manager, ala Italia '90?

Discuss.

pauld37

Hargreaves????? have you been drinking?

FlightMan

Did you read what I wrote?

Quote: Hargreaves plays as the holding midielder for Bayern and Beckanbauer says he couldn't imagine Bayern without him. Thats enough for me.

The other option is Carrick, too attack minded, no experience, or Jenas, crap, and crap with no experience.

FASTER MIKE!!

paul as much as i hate to say this, but i agree with you play carrick instaed of hargreves in that line up, with owen and rooney

mike

pauld37

Yep.

Hargreaves???? have you been drinking?

G-STAR

I hate doing this, but I agree with Paul.

It has to be Carrick in there, without a doubt.

pauld37

First time for everything

It would be very difficult to drop Crouch now, dont you think?

pauld37

Is everyone ok? you'll be telling me you love Mourinho next

pauly

iTrader: (1)

yes but only because owen is not playing well for some reason. maybe he's still feeling the injury, maybe he just lacks confidence. something is not right with him.
crouch looked ordinary tonight. took his goal well but missed a few good chances.
lampard... what was he up to tonight? the only times i remember gerrard gettin forward he scored or looked dangerous, lampard missed the target numerous times (which is very rare).

pauly

iTrader: (1)

but hey ho we won again

FASTER MIKE!!

dont push it paul, if richie and castrol come on and agree you should be very pleased!:
i think crouch knows he's gonna be replace by rooney when he's fit as owen and rooney are more suited to playing together rather than rooney and crouch

pauld37

Maybe, though I think any combination of the three could work

RyanWRX13

Crouch and Rooney up front for the Second round ( Crouch and Owen for Sweden game ). Damm can't believe I've been shouting for Rooney , and I'm a Liverpool supporter through and through . Crouch and Owen for the Sweden game will give Rooney enough time to recover and be at his best. I was liking Sven's tactics near the end - giving Gerrard a free role, while Lampard can still attack aswell.

Cheers Paul.

hectic

Hargreaves is a 'No-where man'... I wouldn't play him against the Dog and Duck ! Once the Substitutions were made tonight we seemed to 'up the pace' slightly , get more width to the team,and get 'round the back' easier..






Its Coming Home!

Alg

Good to read no mention of Gary "hoof it" Neville.
We had Shearer and all Neville ever did was try to hoof the ball to him.
We've now got Crouch and Neville tries the same to him.
We keep the ball on the ground and try and build the play from the back. We manage maybe 6 or 7 passes (retaining the ball and the option to get an attack moving) fcuckin' Neville gets it and guess what? He thinks he's David Beckham....................kaboom............... straight up in the air..... to one of the opposition. Useless bum fluffed tramp looking lead hoofed camel.
I'm starting a "Keep Neville on the bench" campaign.

G-STAR

I honestly don't know what planet you're on. Since Beckham left Old Trafford, Neville has developed as the best crosser of the ball in the United squad, and for a right back, that's impressive. His partnership with Beckham in the England squad is just as impressive, plus he's got the initiative to get up and support play.

We clearly missed him yesterday, as (as much as I think he's a solid defender) Carragher doesn't have an attacking bone in his body, at times he doesn't even look to play the ball forward; he simply gets it, and distributes it among the other back three. When he is actually forced forward, he goes in to nose bleed territory and his crosses rarely go further than the first defender.

To counter your campaign, I'm thinking of starting my own "you're a clueless tw*t" campaign.

CrisPDuk

I have to say I agree with Alg, keep lead foot on the bench, and stick Beckham back there. If he want's to play in the middle of the park make him a sweeper in front of terry, Carragher & Cole

The most influential substitution for me yesterday was Aaron Lennon, he got on and did the job on the right wing that Beckham was supposed to be doing, and did it well, he's young, so he's only going to get better

Back on the original dispute, Hargreaves isn't fit to polish Carrick's boots

CrisPDuk

But at least with a Carragher pass the ball does end up at the feet of an England player

Alg

Come on G-star (or should i say Mr Eriksson)
Lets look at the attributes needed to qualify someone as a good crosser of the ball.
1:Ability to kick the ball a reasonable distance...........check.
2:Ability to kick the ball a reasonable height..............check.
3:Ability to spot the prospective recipient of the pass.................check.
4:Ability to pass the ball to the prospective recipient (lets make it easier, you can use either foot Gary)..........er......mm...No!!..........Not a chance!!
Booting the ball anywhere up the pitch gains nothing unless it goes to an England player and Gary Neville just hasn't got that ability. even Beckham's starting to find it hard. He's not the player he once was.
Watch the Paraguay match and see how many times Neville wasted possesion with an un needed hoof up the pitch. Watch both matches and count the amount of crosses that Neville and Beckham place on the head of opposing players. Take them rose tinted specs off first.
Seriously, if you or i were so bad at our work and got 50% of it wrong, we'd get the bullet. These blokes get paid 60k to 100k per week and they can't even complete what they're overpaid to do.

So Sven, please, please, please leave the "kicking donkey" out of the team, even when the vet says his hind leg's better.

G-STAR

Close - it's Mr. G-STAR, to you.

To be fair, it wasn't just Neville who unsuccessfully played the long ball against Paraguay. The thing is, playing against a team who'll shove everyone behind the ball and look for a lucky goal means you have to improvise; granted, it didn't come off, but Neville is much more than a crosser. He's always been a rock for England, you can't deny that.

Tell me, how many goals has Beckham created in the previous 4/5 matches?

I agree with you that he's not the player he once was, but he still has the creativity and vision that we need.

Hardly, all I'm doing is comparing Neville and Carragher.

FlightMan

Yah. A centre back and a full back.

Lets compare Crouch with Joe Cole. Or Robinson with Lennon.

G-STAR

Sorry, where was Carragher playing for the majority of the game yesterday?

His versatility means he can play at right back, centre back, or in a holding role in front of the back four - I presume you didn't know that.

FlightMan

I know where Carragher can play, thanks very much.
I also know that Neville can play centre back. What i am saying is you cannot compare Neville, who is a full-back, to Carragher, who is only filling in for him.

Unlike you Mancs, i'm able to put aside my blatant anti Utd bias, when its England playing. I'd like to see Rooney in for Owen ( ex Liverpool ) or Crouch, current Liverpool, for while Shrek maybe a Utd player, he clearly represents our best chance of winning the World Cup. To me, that comes before club loyalty.

G-STAR

...and why not?

He's in the squad for his versatility, and he's a natural in either position - even his Liverpool profile points that out; "...and he can play either full back position or centre half."

If he claims to be a full back (as much as a centre half) and he's occupying the position that Neville usually does, surely it's feasible to compare the two?

Club bias doesn't come into it - Gary Neville is clearly a better player in that position, and statistics (number of caps, starts, etc.) prove that.

I can also tell you that Steven Gerrard is an immense talent when he's on his game, and Peter Crouch has impressed me recently. I'm an England supporter this summer - and my recent posts have stressed that.

FlightMan

Firstly you say he is in the squad for his versatility. Correct. But he isnt a full-back. He is a cente back who can play at full-back if required, but it isnt his preferred position. So, its an unfair comparison. Neville can play centre back, as I've said. Do you want to compare him with John Terry?

Can you find me a quote where Carragher "claims to be a full-back"? Don't think you'll find one mate.

Of course Neville is a better player in that position. Neville is a full-back, Carragher isnt.

G-STAR

There's no preference stated there.

Besides, you're still missing the point - as he's playing in the same position as Neville would, it's viable to compare the two.

Unfair or not, they're still placed there to do the same job.

Here's another quote from Euro 2004:

From that, it's clear he's only made the transition to a 'full blown' centre back, if that's what you want to believe, in the past couple of years.