Type R from coilovers to P1 struts and springs
15 August 2014, 09:58 PM
#1
Type R from coilovers to P1 struts and springs
Not a question but really to let people know what a transformation it has made to the handling.
I had a set of Leda B coilovers, unknown height and spring rate, on my type r since I bought it 2 years ago. Apart from a rear 22mm white line adj arb and solid droplinks its has pretty much standard everything else and runs 17" ST2's with 215/45/17 tyres.
The coilovers on the softest setting were way too hard on the b roads I travel on. This was to the point that the car would hop and skip under power and cornering.
After refurbing a low mileage set of P1 red inverted struts with standard springs I have just fitted them. The quality of the ride is drastically improved. Its still very stiff and sits higher than before, which I don't mind, but the grip is awesome and it feels like I'm in control.
Under power it doesn't flinch and I only use the green on the dccd in the wet and cornering is smooth and never feels out of control or loose.
Road noise is also significantly reduced too.
The only niggle is that it could probably do with a slightly stiffer front arb. I may put up with it a while before deciding.
Anyway, in conclusion I think coilovers on anything other than smooth tarmac aren't necessary and reduce the quality of the ride. Think twice before fitting them.
I had a set of Leda B coilovers, unknown height and spring rate, on my type r since I bought it 2 years ago. Apart from a rear 22mm white line adj arb and solid droplinks its has pretty much standard everything else and runs 17" ST2's with 215/45/17 tyres.
The coilovers on the softest setting were way too hard on the b roads I travel on. This was to the point that the car would hop and skip under power and cornering.
After refurbing a low mileage set of P1 red inverted struts with standard springs I have just fitted them. The quality of the ride is drastically improved. Its still very stiff and sits higher than before, which I don't mind, but the grip is awesome and it feels like I'm in control.
Under power it doesn't flinch and I only use the green on the dccd in the wet and cornering is smooth and never feels out of control or loose.
Road noise is also significantly reduced too.
The only niggle is that it could probably do with a slightly stiffer front arb. I may put up with it a while before deciding.
Anyway, in conclusion I think coilovers on anything other than smooth tarmac aren't necessary and reduce the quality of the ride. Think twice before fitting them.
Last edited by Welloilbeefhooked; 15 August 2014 at 09:59 PM.
15 August 2014, 10:37 PM
#2
My suspension set up for my Type R is
Bilsteins (WR Sports package)
P1 springs
24mm rear ARB (middle setting iirc)
Solid rear droplinks
ALK
215/40/17 Toyo T1Rs (not a fan of them)
The confidence that particular set up gives is fantastic.
I would suggest playing with the DCCD as you can feel a whole lot of difference when cornering when you push up the switch.
Replace the steering rack bush as this gives a firmer feel to the steering and feedback from he steering (and it's cheap
)
Bilsteins (WR Sports package)
P1 springs
24mm rear ARB (middle setting iirc)
Solid rear droplinks
ALK
215/40/17 Toyo T1Rs (not a fan of them)
The confidence that particular set up gives is fantastic.
I would suggest playing with the DCCD as you can feel a whole lot of difference when cornering when you push up the switch.
Replace the steering rack bush as this gives a firmer feel to the steering and feedback from he steering (and it's cheap
)
15 August 2014, 10:54 PM
#3
My suspension set up for my Type R is
Bilsteins (WR Sports package)
P1 springs
24mm rear ARB (middle setting iirc)
Solid rear droplinks
ALK
215/40/17 Toyo T1Rs (not a fan of them)
The confidence that particular set up gives is fantastic.
I would suggest playing with the DCCD as you can feel a whole lot of difference when cornering when you push up the switch.
Replace the steering rack bush as this gives a firmer feel to the steering and feedback from he steering (and it's cheap )
Bilsteins (WR Sports package)
P1 springs
24mm rear ARB (middle setting iirc)
Solid rear droplinks
ALK
215/40/17 Toyo T1Rs (not a fan of them)
The confidence that particular set up gives is fantastic.
I would suggest playing with the DCCD as you can feel a whole lot of difference when cornering when you push up the switch.
Replace the steering rack bush as this gives a firmer feel to the steering and feedback from he steering (and it's cheap
)Are you running standard front arb and what dccd settings do you use in the wet and then the dry?
Last edited by Welloilbeefhooked; 15 August 2014 at 10:55 PM.
16 August 2014, 08:56 AM
#4
For Type R blatting on typically ****e UK roads you absolutely need two things:
Travel and Compliance y
These are typically characteristics you don't get with budget coilovers
I have always preferred a spring & fixed perch set-up to a coilover, and have my Type R set-up as myblack above with Billies & P1 springs and as said, the confidence is just massively grin inspiring and never ceases to totally amaze at how it floats through some stuff
At that's what you get - float. As opposed to hard, jumpy, jittery, crashy....
The P1 spring was tuned for UK roads. The Jap JDM springs off the Sti were tuned for super smooth Japanese road tarmac, so skip and jump mid-bend and under power - yuk (like how you're describing your old coilover ride)
So, when you say you think you need a stiffer front bar why is this? What aspect of the handling are you not happy with?
Travel and Compliance y
These are typically characteristics you don't get with budget coilovers
I have always preferred a spring & fixed perch set-up to a coilover, and have my Type R set-up as myblack above with Billies & P1 springs and as said, the confidence is just massively grin inspiring and never ceases to totally amaze at how it floats through some stuff
At that's what you get - float. As opposed to hard, jumpy, jittery, crashy....
The P1 spring was tuned for UK roads. The Jap JDM springs off the Sti were tuned for super smooth Japanese road tarmac, so skip and jump mid-bend and under power - yuk (like how you're describing your old coilover ride)
So, when you say you think you need a stiffer front bar why is this? What aspect of the handling are you not happy with?
16 August 2014, 10:26 AM
#5
Checking the bushes is now very important especially as our cars are getting older and the rubber perishes my track control arm bushes were like fecked.
Standard front ARB for as I'm happy with the way it feels.
I don't really have any specific setting for any conditions/road type
Wet I'm normally in 2nd green/1st orange on normal roads. Faster roads/standing water I put it up a bit further whether or not that helsp I don't know it just makes me feel happier
Dry is normally 1st green but on a blast through the my local country roads I've driven it all through the range, locking the diffs is fantastic for fast speed (legal) cornering (but not tight corners, hairpins etc).
How you use it is a personal preference so just go out an practice with it and see what suits you
Standard front ARB for as I'm happy with the way it feels.
I don't really have any specific setting for any conditions/road type
Wet I'm normally in 2nd green/1st orange on normal roads. Faster roads/standing water I put it up a bit further whether or not that helsp I don't know it just makes me feel happier
Dry is normally 1st green but on a blast through the my local country roads I've driven it all through the range, locking the diffs is fantastic for fast speed (legal) cornering (but not tight corners, hairpins etc).
How you use it is a personal preference so just go out an practice with it and see what suits you
16 August 2014, 11:58 AM
#7
The front end seems to roll in before biting. It may be that I'm used to the coilovers not budging.
I was thinking that I would go 22mm front arb, new rack bushes and leave the rear bar on its mid setting. Before I get it all setup correctly I was wondering about the castor mod? I'm not going the all route or changing anything else as its damn good as it is.
It does seem to sit slightly higher at the front but I remember reading somewhere that the front arches are sat higher than the front anyway. It looks level with the floor when looking side on at the skirts.
I was thinking that I would go 22mm front arb, new rack bushes and leave the rear bar on its mid setting. Before I get it all setup correctly I was wondering about the castor mod? I'm not going the all route or changing anything else as its damn good as it is.
It does seem to sit slightly higher at the front but I remember reading somewhere that the front arches are sat higher than the front anyway. It looks level with the floor when looking side on at the skirts.
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16 August 2014, 12:05 PM
#8
What front (and rear) tyres are you running? Wall stiffness will make a difference, especially as you run 17" (the best diameter IMO)
Other differences which will significantly effect turn-in is geometry
Do you have the rear bar in the middle now?
Other differences which will significantly effect turn-in is geometry
Do you have the rear bar in the middle now?
16 August 2014, 12:15 PM
#9
Repainted everything and reassembled them before fitting.
17 August 2014, 08:55 AM
#11
Any stiffer out back at you're going to get too much rear rotation
22 rear bar on middle should be fine
I would be going for a geometry set-up next. Do you have any numbers in mind that you'll be using?
If you want to go stiffer there are options, and swapping out arb's will always see the biggest change of pretty much all suspension mods
The cheapest for you could be to go for a front 22, or you could go 24 rear and 22 front, or even 24 front & rear.
It comes down to a little bit of persoanl preference. 24R & 22F is the combo I have settled on for my 'faster' Impreza's - classic and new age. Just a slightly stiffer rear I used on a DD STi classic wagon which was more compliant, comfortable and handled very well at the same time
22 rear bar on middle should be fine
I would be going for a geometry set-up next. Do you have any numbers in mind that you'll be using?
If you want to go stiffer there are options, and swapping out arb's will always see the biggest change of pretty much all suspension mods
The cheapest for you could be to go for a front 22, or you could go 24 rear and 22 front, or even 24 front & rear.
It comes down to a little bit of persoanl preference. 24R & 22F is the combo I have settled on for my 'faster' Impreza's - classic and new age. Just a slightly stiffer rear I used on a DD STi classic wagon which was more compliant, comfortable and handled very well at the same time
17 August 2014, 09:14 AM
#12
What I'm worried about is understeer, which my last classic had.
I had 22mm front and rear zerosports arbs, standard v4 shocks with eibach lowered springs, solid drop links and a geo setup by scoobyclinic. I thought the understeer was down to the viscous centre diff until I went dccd and it was still there. What did help with handling and stability was the fitment of a dccdpro controller. May get another for this one.
I had 22mm front and rear zerosports arbs, standard v4 shocks with eibach lowered springs, solid drop links and a geo setup by scoobyclinic. I thought the understeer was down to the viscous centre diff until I went dccd and it was still there. What did help with handling and stability was the fitment of a dccdpro controller. May get another for this one.
17 August 2014, 09:45 AM
#13
I would still get the alignment looked at and see how things are then. If you get understeer, that can be dealt with at that stage
As for your other classic, we don't know much about that, but Eibach springs lower the car a fair bit which leads to all manner of issues.
It drastically lowers the front roll centre and camber curve, as well as running very near, or on the bumpstops, resulting in more positive camber of your outside wheel on turn in
Your present car has the P1 V5/6 struts and standard springs which make the car sit at a better height whiich will cause far less issues
As for your other classic, we don't know much about that, but Eibach springs lower the car a fair bit which leads to all manner of issues.
It drastically lowers the front roll centre and camber curve, as well as running very near, or on the bumpstops, resulting in more positive camber of your outside wheel on turn in
Your present car has the P1 V5/6 struts and standard springs which make the car sit at a better height whiich will cause far less issues
21 August 2014, 07:03 AM
#14
Changed the steering rack bushes which were goosed! Fitted some poly bushes. Checked the bottom arm bushes and track rod ends/ball joints and all are good. It looks like they have all been replaced within the last few years before I bought the car and considering its only done 3k miles in the last 4.5 years they should still be good.
Booked in for geometry next week and was going to ask there advice on settings but the standard p1 settings would be good as a starting point.
Booked in for geometry next week and was going to ask there advice on settings but the standard p1 settings would be good as a starting point.
21 August 2014, 08:11 AM
#15
As you're going through the process of setting -up your car so to speak, it would be advantageous to familiarise yourself with alignment settings and what differences can make
Alignment is one THE most important aspects of set-up and influences how the car will behave and feel
I always discuss what settings will be dialed in when in the alignment garage, and know pretty much exactly what I want setting in
Have a look through through this thread, there's pretty much everything you need to know
Let us know how you get on
Alignment is one THE most important aspects of set-up and influences how the car will behave and feel
I always discuss what settings will be dialed in when in the alignment garage, and know pretty much exactly what I want setting in
Have a look through through this thread, there's pretty much everything you need to know
Let us know how you get on
25 August 2014, 11:30 AM
#16
Had a good read through that thread, cheers.
The only other things I am thinking about are poly bushes on the front oe arb and the anti lift kit, but heard mixed reviews. Would I just be better off with the free castor mod?
The only other things I am thinking about are poly bushes on the front oe arb and the anti lift kit, but heard mixed reviews. Would I just be better off with the free castor mod?
Last edited by Welloilbeefhooked; 25 August 2014 at 11:32 AM.
25 August 2014, 12:03 PM
#17
Polybushing the front arb is an inexpensive and easy job, plus worth doing
As for anti-lift you will get fan boys for both using them, and not so best not to get any hot debate started
Some prefer ALK's and the increased see-saw of the car, others prefer flat
Castor increase is always good on the GC8 6° max but flipping the pin for an extra half a degree is worth it in itself
As for anti-lift you will get fan boys for both using them, and not so best not to get any hot debate started
Some prefer ALK's and the increased see-saw of the car, others prefer flat
Castor increase is always good on the GC8 6° max but flipping the pin for an extra half a degree is worth it in itself
25 August 2014, 06:36 PM
#18
So what's your preference on the alk?
I have looked at the kits and you can buy the full alk with alloy mounts inc or just the white line bushes that I assume are pressed into the rear mount. Apart from time fitting, what's the difference in terms of usage?
I have looked at the kits and you can buy the full alk with alloy mounts inc or just the white line bushes that I assume are pressed into the rear mount. Apart from time fitting, what's the difference in terms of usage?
25 August 2014, 08:55 PM
#19
http://www.scoobyworld.co.uk/catalog...oducts_id=2284
Do these fit the oe sti bottom arm rear mount?
Do these fit the oe sti bottom arm rear mount?
Last edited by Welloilbeefhooked; 25 August 2014 at 09:01 PM.
26 August 2014, 10:48 PM
#21
Ah, not sure what's up with the link as it opens on my phone.
Whiteline Subaru Impreza Front Control arm - lower inner rear bushing (caster correction) - KCA375
These are the offset bush that state for original arm fitment. I'm assuming I can press these into my oe mounts for £88 rather than buy the full mounts for £150.
Whiteline Subaru Impreza Front Control arm - lower inner rear bushing (caster correction) - KCA375
These are the offset bush that state for original arm fitment. I'm assuming I can press these into my oe mounts for £88 rather than buy the full mounts for £150.
11 September 2014, 09:51 PM
#23
Got a pair of used but good white line alk mounts, the ones with the gold/yellow bodies.
As they are from another car they already have the pins through them bolted in place. Should I still do the rotated pin mod whilst I'm fitting them?
As they are from another car they already have the pins through them bolted in place. Should I still do the rotated pin mod whilst I'm fitting them?
14 September 2014, 01:32 PM
#26
Slightly off the original topic but Brembos on a classic are fecking fantastic and with the extra suspension mods whether it be bushes or bigger ARBs etc makes for a great drive.
Think DCCD pro (or one of the alternatives) will be my next purchase when my 6 speed DCCD box goes in.
Think DCCD pro (or one of the alternatives) will be my next purchase when my 6 speed DCCD box goes in.
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