MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

I bought a set of the rear droplinks in the recent Apex group buy, so now I'm thinking I should probably buy a rear ARB to compliment them.

Questions are:
1) Which one to buy? I'm not planning to do track days in the immediate future, but want a little less tail out action and more grip cornering; given that, should I go for a 22, 24 or 27mm, and adjustable or not?

I've seen Whiteline ones - H&R and Eibach items look a little too pricey for me. Are there similar priced and quality alternatives?

2) Where's the best place to buy one? Revolution et al all seem to weigh in around £135. Anyone know anywhere else cheaper?

Cheers,

G

andrew jeffs

iTrader: (3)

most people on here go for whiteline rollbars,i would stick to the 22mm rear bar as it has 3 adjustment levels on it ,to tailor you handling tastes.The thicker the rear bar,the more oversteer,so bear that in mind.I have just bought one for my classic for £115 plus p and p from camskill...

corradoboy

What's your driving style ? If you rely heavily on the brakes then go 22mm, or if you have a fluid, progressive driving style where brake usage is almost non-existent, then go 24mm. I'd not bother with the 27mm if you don't track.

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

I tend to use the gears more than the brakes TBH; only use the brakes hard when I have to. Is it basically the thicker the bar the more grip offered?

corradoboy

By stiffening the rear the front wheels retain better alignment due to reduced body roll, thus maintaining more grip on turn-in. If the car becomes unsettled however, the extra speed, and the lack of flexibility in the set-up will make the car more nervous and likely to spin out. So, if you are indeed progressive, using the gears and little braking then the 24 will probably suit you.

rickya

iTrader: (18)

If you want less tail out action then I would suggest 22m front & rear & not 22m front & 24mm rear as most do. Or you could even go 24mm fornt & rear. i.e keep same front & rear. I prefer tail out & less understeer hence have 24mm whiteline adjustable on rear & kept 20.5mm on front.

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

Thanks for the advice guys

escott

iTrader: (1)

22mm adjustable seems to be a good start - BSR33z.

I've seen it down to £115:

.: PreciousMetal-Online.co.uk -

Indigo-GT: Online

http://www.balancemotorsport.co.uk/products.asp

Also worth giving demon tweeks a call and mention the SNET discount.

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

Cheers Ewen - sounds like you've been doing some spending yourself then!
This is my xmas present from the wife lol.
What's the demon tweeks discount get you? I wasn't aware of it.

Going 4 400bhp

iTrader: (2)

Slowboy-racing.co.uk

Doing a group buy on white line at the mo

escott

iTrader: (1)

Didn't know about the slowboy GB - I might be being dumb, but can't seem to find it. Can you post the link?

Giles, yes the wallet has been out a few times recently! I haven't got the ARB yet, but have got an ALK to fit, got a ecutek ECU on the way and sports cat/JGM remap to add.

Did you get your sports cat fitted and a remap? If so where, and how did it go?

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

Mate, the sports cat, decat, and my intercooler Y pipe are still sat in the garage gathering dust! I have had my suspension and geometry done though - looks and handles a lot better.
Just trying to pay that off along with another £3k I owe for house moving related expenses; then I'll be saving up to have the exhaust bits changed over and a remap with JGM like yourself.

I was thinking of getting James @ GRD to fit the parts but sadly the poor guy got knocked down in LA by a hit and run driver, and I don't know when or if he'll be coming back to work (although rumour has it he's doing well).

Perhaps I'll nip over to slowboy. In the meantime, contenting myself with smaller less expensive tweaks like this

dougisaacs

Related query guys, I have a Classic 2000MY UK turbo and was considering getting new ARBs. Due to tight finances I was thinking of going for just the rear first, and getting a 24" adjustable. I suddenly thought, hold on, am I going to get an oversteering monster (especially on the brakes?) if I don't do the front as well. My performance driving experience is fairly limited, never done oversteer (deliberately anyway!) and I am likely to track once a year if I'm lucky. Any thoughts? What diameter are the standard ARBs front and rear on my car?

Doug

corradoboy

Standard on newage are 19mm IIRC, not sure about classic. If you're a novice performance driver and use a lot of braking then the 22mm would be more suited. Start at the softest setting and work through to see how you prefer it. There are 3 holes (on Whiteline bars) which curiously offer 5 settings. the obvious where both sides are on soft, middle or hard, but you can also put one side on the next setting up/down to get halfway between. So there's actually soft/soft, soft/mid, mid/mid, mid/hard and hard/hard. As the bar works on torsional rotation there is no reason this cannot be done.

dougisaacs

Interesting comment, wouldn't have thought of the five settings, but makes sense, thanks for that. Does anyone know if the whiteline bars come with bushes for the mounts, or do I need to buy these as well? I assume they don't come with new drop links.

dunx

iTrader: (3)

Bushes yes, drop-links no. but the cheaper wire-links are fine, just "less" visually attractive. imho

HTH

DunxC

dunx

iTrader: (3)

To the O.P. do you currently get lots of "tail-out", or do you mean you don't want to end up with said behaviour ?

My pal "KojaK" has a std bug-eye WRX and he finally did as I said, and fitted a rear adjustable bar and wire drop-links.

He found fully stiff a bit too oversteery for the run to work, and harsh over bumps/ridges, and runs his on the medium setting and is really happy with the sharper turn-in and flatter cornering of his car.

I say this is the best value mod on my car !

HTH

DunxC

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

I get a fair bit of "tail-out" already dunx - esp. in the wet. I run Goodyear Eagle F1's but I've never thought that much of them in the wet.
To be fair, I can easily correct the tail-out slides, and I know that if I overcook it going into a corner or roundabout I can induce the tail-out action; sometimes I do it on purpose on roundabout hehe , but yes I think I'd like to see a little less of said behaviour, hence this mod.

Think maybe I should go for the 22mm and run it on medium then guys?
Cheers.

dougisaacs

My understanding is any stiffening of the rear (all other things remaining equal) will increase oversteer. If you are fitting a thicker rear ARB you will therefore increase oversteer. If you want LESS oversteer you need to soften the rear and / or stiffen the front (or get an ALK to increase castor and therefore camber when turning, hence give more front grip) - This is from reading stuff and absolutely no practical experience!

Dunx - is Kojak's car running the 22" or 24" rear ARB? and what front ARB?

cusco kid

the size on your car will be 18mm .go to the 24mm rear bar first with alloy drop links .you will increase the roll stiffness by 216% if you go with 24mm and 123% if you go with 22mm rear, all adjustable
the 24mm will tighten up your front end emmensly //fit alloy drop links to cope with the difference in roll stiffness ,you old ones wont cope
fit alloy front d/links and poly steering rack bushes to tighten the front up
see how this suits you and go play with it m8
did you know that Whiteline have a new range of poly bushes for scoobies
all bushes now catered for inc front wishbone rear and diff carrier bushes cheers geo

escott

iTrader: (1)

I think you're right - stiffening the rear without doing anything else tends to increase oversteer.

Giles, interesting your car does that at the moment, normal behaviour is to understeer (and on mine it's quite noticeable). If I remember you have prodrive springs and 18inch wheels, I wouldn't have thought these and drop links would change this much - but maybe they have?

Might be a good idea to speak to someone about the current car's behaviour and talk about what you are after - obvious thoughts are Powerstation and Mocom, although Neil at Slowboy I'm sure could help too.

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

A load of people on surrey scoobies mentioned they could get the car to do the same; I suspect with a better rain tyre it wouldn't happen so much - it's more difficult to get the car to do it in the dry but not impossible.

You're right re my setup (bar the drop links which I haven't fitted yet) but I've always been able to get the car to do this, even with the 17's. I think it's likely I'm just taking the roundabout a little too quick on occassion before correcting it when it starts to slide - did I mention I sometimes so it on purpose (on an empty roundabout of course)?

James @ GRD did the geo for me and the front grips much better now - I'm just looking to get the rear to bite a little more.

escott

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the very informative post, please come back and keep offering good advice! We always need more informed opinion on here.

corradoboy

I'd beg to differ with you on that. The drop-link connects on the vertical plane from below and the movement/load which generates the tension also applies from that link and thus on the vertical plane. The adjustment on adjustable ARB's is along the horizontal plane, so any movement along that plane creates no load at all. That is why with the car sat on the ground (not jacked) you can disconnect one or both sides to make adjustment easily. If there was any pre-load then you would have to apply tension to re-align the fixings, but you don't. I saw no adverse effect during testing of the 22mm bar on my car, and under serious testing circumstances (track and (very) high speed road driving). I settled on the hardest setting which suits my smooth, fluid driving style, but I wished I'd got the 24mm in hindsight.

dunx

iTrader: (3)

Back again !

Kojak's WRX is fitted with a 22mm rear bar with wire-type drop-links, and is otherwise std. suspension wise.

Mine has the whole kit ALK, 22mm adjustable bars F&R, and drop-links. On decent tyres mine is so grippy that where I used to brake going onto a certain A1 roundabout, now I actually accelerate, and short-shift up a gear !

Mine oversteer'd with just a rear bar, but had more bite on turn-in into a corner. Then with the front bar and ALK added it just grips about 20% better than a std. set-up, on track I get a nice drift-style exit under full power, as I'm old and slow now.

LOL

DunxC

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

Cheers guys. After reading all this I think I'll start with an adjustable 22mm; at least I can change it if I want later...

dunx

iTrader: (3)

Good choice, you'll love the sharper turn-in and flatter cornering !

Start on medium ( centre hole ) and try stiff when it's dry/warm weather ideally !

HTH

DunxC

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

Nice one Dunx - cheers

Overlap

thanks. post got removed i didn't read the smallprint
no commercial posts allowed ! so i have no connection at all with Balance Motorsport
i spoke to whiteline about fitting droplinks unevenly and they advise strongly against it.

dunx

iTrader: (3)

Don't get it, if it's mostly rh bends stiffen left link, or vice versa...

It's only a torsion bar and two links after all.

DunxC