Dan W

I was on my way home last night about 5pm after picking up my Girlfriend from work and her nipper from nursery when we got to the bottom of Western Avenue in Newport at the junction with Bassaleg Road. If you know the area you will know it is a very busy junction when trying to pull onto Bassaleg road. I was waiting to turn right towards Pie corner. I was looking right and left and saw to my left up the hill a black mini indicating to turn right onto western avenue and I knew I had room to pull out. I was also looking right to see if there was anything coming and way up the road was a car (silver punto) but again I had time to pull out.


I glanced left again to double check I had the mini timed right and as I went to pull out my girlfriend shouts 'Look Out'! I had gone about a third of a car lenght into the road and saw the punto was barrelling down on us.

The punto driver swerved around us (not braking) and carried on for about 30 yards before finally slamming on her brakes and slamming straight into the black min which by now had nearly reached the junction and was in the filter lane.

My misses panicked and asked me to drive away not realising we were oblidged to stay. I wasnt planning on going anywhere.

I pull the fiesta onto the side, got out and callled the emergency services.
Nobody was seriously hurt but ambulances arrived and the three occupants (Two in the punto, woman in her late forties and teenage girl, and One in the mini, girl in her early twenties). Got into two ambulances.

At first they tried to say that it was my fault that they collided. But I didnt say anything confirming or denying it. After a few minutes of looking at the scene and piecing together the events in my head. It was obvious to me that the Punto driver was speeding. Before the ambulance arrived she kept saying that she was only doing 30mph but the fact that she was on top of me in a second, the fact she didn't brake at first, and the sheer damage to the punto and the mini told a different story.

The woman in the mini agreed then with me and said I ought to say something to the punto driver. Then was not the time so I said nothing.
The police arrived and took everyone's details. I told the copper what had happended and didn't shy away from saying I felt partly responsible but i told him I reckon the punto driver was speeding for if she wasnt she would have had time to brake and aviod hitting the mini. There is no doubt in my mind about this. He asked how me how fast did I think was she going and at first I said its hard to say but I said about 40-45mph. I stressed that I didnt want to incriminate her as it may have been slower. It was definately more than 30 though.

The ambulances left, my misses was long gone as she had to take her nipper home because he was ill. I told the copper she had to go but I was driving. I even helped the coppers, and the mini drivers boyfriend ( he turned up shortly after and had heard the bang) move the mini into western avenue. The crash happended right ouside the mini drivers house.

The copper told me I was free to go so I ended up walking back to Bassaleg.

The copper rang later that night to give me the punto and mini drivers details and said the punto driver might try to say I caused her to swerve so her insurers might contact me. I asked if there would be further police involvement and he said only for the punto driver who will be offered a driver awareness course. He even said that if I feel that her speeding caused the crash to tell my insurers to state so on my behalf.

It was a hell of a crash and was extremely stressful, particularly as I was convinced at first that I had caused the crash but I could see within a matter of minutes that even though I caused the punto to swerve she was flying along and when I first looked she was far enough away for me to pull out. Next second she is on to of me.

Even though she kept saying that she was only doing thirty, the evidence spoke for itself. Even the mini driver agreed. Its obvious that the cops think so too as the punto driver is the only one to receive further police involement.

I cant help feeling like **** though.

R1CH D

iTrader: (8)

Understandable you feel partially involved but if the punto was doing the correct speed it would have been able to avoid a collision with the mini. Don't kill yourself over it, accidents happen.

MDS_WRX

iTrader: (1)

If she wasn't speeding, would she have crashed? If the answer is no then you have nothing to feel guilty about.

Plus, it sounds as though no-one is seriously injured so apart from the cars which can be replaced, it's all fine.

Blue by You

iTrader: (23)

Without taking sides, or having a dig at you, the fact that the Punto was apparently speeding has no bearing on your invlovment in the accident.
If you had not pulled out this car may well have carried on quite safely, even if breaking the speed limit (we surely have all done it at some time).

All this doesn't mean you have to hang your head in shame though, and as said nobody was hurt. It's an accident and if the duty copper says it's not your fault, then that's the end of it.

As I say, no offence.

Dan W

No Problem, Blue By You I'm not offended.

If I hadnt pulled out the punto would have gone on by. But if she wasnt travelling so fast I wouldnt have needed to brake and end up sticking out into the road. Instead I would have had time to cross her path without being a danger.

When I braked it was clear the she didnt try to brake. She didnt swerve aggressively as the road a very wide and she was far enough away from me to not need to swerve aggressively. She sort of gently curved past me. It wasnt an instant collision after curving around me either. She only slammed her brakes on once she was about 20-30 yards past me and in the path of the mini, which she hit head on.

It was as if she thought she didnt need to slow down and instead curved around me. Then seeing that the mini drifted into the filter lane she slammed her brakes on at the last second.

If she had been doing the speed limit and braked when I had initially went to cross her path she would have had time to stop. I am in no doubt of that.

I dont mind people playing devil's advocate here. Its ok if you want to see things differently.

yojo2k6

Dan W

I hope you do feel very guilty if you hadn't pulled across the junction then maybe all the distress and pain wouldn't be felt by the people involved.

All I can say is perhaps you should not have got your wife to move the vehicle before the police arrived so that they could have got a clear picture of the accident, though you said it was because the baby was in there hmmm perhaps you should have just taken the baby out?

Also I hope when the insurance companies have finished with the dispute that justice is done.

Where theres blame theres a claim.

But on a very very personal note as the women you say was speeding is my wife I find it rather distasteful that you should post accusations on a public forum. Fact: Paramedics confirmed that injuries incurred were conjusive with low speed collision or as the paramedic stated 20 -25mph maximum. Fact: When the officer who took the report is back from leave I will be personally contacting him with regards to the accident wanting a full report for my solicitors. Fact: Insurers will be contacting you as part of a 3rd Party claim. Fact: You have not heard the last of it.

stuart2088

iTrader: (1)

and way up the road was a car(silver punto) but again i had time to pull out.

Obviously whether the Punto was above the speed limit or not you have misjudged the time/distance available for your exit of the junction.

You say it was way up the road so even if it was speeding there should have been ample opportunity to exit.

Not trying to be judgemental as i wasnt there but to me if blame was to be apportioned i would come down against yourself.

The fact that your passenger had to warn you of the Puntos presence suggests you were not aware of its presence and but for your passenger it sounds like you would have been T Boned in the side.

Martin 2010

iTrader: (9)

im not taking sides for a start off as i wasnt there, and from the sounds of it, the person pulling out has got some blame to take for this tbh as well as you wife if she was speeding. as the law states u can make a manover like this if you do not cause some one also traveling with in the law to alter there course via braking acclerating steering etc..

how ever the fact that a paramedic as stated the injuries confirm'd the impact speed was about 20-25mph is irrelevant and will not stand up in a court against the claims of speeding, it is impossible to determin the spped of a car via injurys, esp in a head on at the impact spped is the speed of both cars inovled added together, now the 20-25mph impact speed is still possible if the cars on the brakes and the mini is probalby traveling slowly. either way this thread is by a guy that is feeling bad for whats happened etc. hes hardly braggin about it etc. tbh sounds like a accident either way and that its 6 of one half a dozen of the other, and dont come on our forum threating ppl its not nice!

evil.soup

iTrader: (1)

I would like to try and remain impartial on this one so let’s look at the facts.

Dan did pull into the path of the Punto so a portion of guilt can possibly be laid at his feet regardless of the speed of the Punto due to miss judgment. However, the ladies husband has stated that the impact speed was theoretically between 20 and 25mph. With this in mind we have to consider stopping distances. If the Punto was able to swerve and apply brakes, is it not fare to consider that a slowing of only 5-10mph could possibly suggest that the car was traveling above 30mph or simply did not apply the brakes until last second which again is miss judgment?

Stopping distance from 30 is approximately 6 car lengths. That junction is around 3 car lengths wide and the impact occurred beyond this so I would imagine at least 50% of the traveling speed should have been scrubbed off before the impact. This would suggest an estimated traveling speed of 40-50mph.

Based on the facts given by both parties I think there is blame on both sides. The only innocent one would be the Mini driver. Understandably the husband is angry but that is a fast stretch of road regardless of the posted speed limit and traveling above 30 I would imagine is common practice. Dan certainly had a part to play in this, however, like me as someone who wasn’t there, to suggest that your wife is blameless just doesn’t stand in terms of the law or the facts presented at this time.

If anything, its like for like blame in my eyes, but these things happen so it’s probably not worth getting angry or upset about for either party. Everyone is safe and it’s just a couple of tin boxes hurt at the end of the day.

JDM_Stig

iTrader: (3)

as there is a delay in her braking etc are you sure she wasnt on the phone?

yojo2k6

Knowing my wife as I most certainly do:

1. The fact that people are saying she was speeding would be very unlikely , I'm for ever telling her to get a move on if I'm in the car with her.

2. There are 2 major things that she detests with a passion and that is people who use mobile phones when they are driving and also people who drink and drive, so it is not only unlikely but an absolute that she wasn't on the phone.

Only those involved can really comment on speeds, distances etc and , knowing the way she drives and how careful she is on a normal day to day basis, when she says she had to swerve to miss the car turning into her lane I am obviously going to believe my wife, the fact remains that was that Dan W did pull out of the junction into an on coming car, on his own admission his girlfriend had to tell him of my wifes car, so what was he looking at? I wonder if the mini driver did in fact flash him across the junction and did he take it for granted that the road was clear, only he will know in his heart of hearts whether he caused this accident.

As it is all in the hands of the insurers then we'll just have to see how they interprupt the events.

Dan W to you personally, thank you for calling the ambulance, and the only thing my wife is really happy about and the only positive outcome is that she did not drive straight into the side of you after later finding you had a young child with you.

Metal can be repaired or replaced but life is precious.

Chip

Well thats a bit of a different attitude to your first post.

Do you know Dan W or did you just come across his original post on here by chance.

Chip

yojo2k6

A friend noticed the first post and said that I shoud take a look at what he was saying about the incident, my first post was in complete anger at the fact he was looking for vindication for his part in the crash which to be honest would never had happened had he not pulled out of the junction. As I have already said I will be speaking with the officer who attended the scene when he returns tomorrow.

Dan W

Yojo,

I put this thread up out of genuine regret over what happened the other night. I have not said anything that unfairly apportions blame in any way. I put this here simply to ask others what their thoughts were.
I have done my very best to state the facts are fairly as possible.
I admitted I pulled partially out into the road. But I am forced to admit that the evidence at the crash site speaks for itself.

I accept that the ambulance crew say the injuries are consistent with a collision of 20-25 MPH but that is only the collision speed. Your wife skidded with the wheels locked up for around 10 yards before hitting the Mini.

I obviously dont know your wife and accept that she may well be a slow driver. But it just seems that on this occasion she wasnt doing just 30MPH.

If it were somehow posible to demonstrate that your wife was doing only 30 at the time I pulled into the lane, the evidence would then point to the fact that she didnt seem to brake until the collsion with the mini seemed inevitable, which was when the wheels locked up. By this point she had passed me. If she had attempted to brake when I initially pulled out the collision with the mini would have been much less severe if it had occurred at all.

I am in no way trying to get myself off the hook in regards to what happened.
All I can do is tell you how things look from the way I see them.

If for example the police had taken statements at the scene and concluded that it was my fault I would take the rap. I have not even said that I am unprepared to accept some responsibility. There seems to be fault on both sides.

If the evidence pointed the blame squarely at me I would be telling that story here instead of this one.

I am a Psychologist by trade so not the type to try and distort facts. I am aware of the distortions that occur in eye-witness testimony and even apply this to myself, to ensure I am seeing things correctly.

I am not here to say who is ultimately at fault. Hence me posting on this thread.

Ultimately accidents happen most of which according to the statistics are due to driver error (only two months ago a woman drove straight into the back of me and even now I am still suffering from neck pain). All we can do when they happen to us is deal with them as maturely and efficiently as possible.

I hope your wife is well now Yojo and not experiencing any further problems.

When your insurers contact me I shall reply accordingly.

Dan

Cannon Fodder

iTrader: (100)

I have read this thread with some trepidation; what is it about modern day life that means that we all have to post up our problems, concerns and worries in order to for someone else to tell us that it is not our fault or that what we have done is correct?

To be honest if I were the OP then I would have not have posted it up on here or anywhere else.

And if you want my opinion on the matter then yes I do actually believe that you were the main contributing factor to the accident, regardless of the speed of the Punto driver you were obviously not paying enough attention to the traffic conditions.

Dan W

Thanks Cannon Fodder.

I put this thread here for one reason. Not to air dirty laundry but to ask for second opinions.

Its got nothing to do with modern society and an inablility to think for myself.

I am actually a very private person.

Ok so I pulled out. Part blame. The driver of the punto did not brake.

I think I ough to state just how far out of the junction I actually moved.

It was as far as the A pillar, where wing and door meet.

I am getting the impression that people think I took up the entire lane.

I am sure that the view that is generally taken by police, insurers etc is that if one is speeding they are less alble to respond effectively to situations that occur and more likley to collide with other motorists, 'furniture' etc.

Further more I was paying attention to the road and more so given the junction I was at. As I stated I did in fact look up the road and the punto was sufficient distance away for me to safely pull out. But due to excessive speed she reached the junction quicker than I had estimated.

The funny thing was that whilst the emergency services were at the scene I was expecting them to measure the length of the skid mark on the road. I should have asked them to do so.
Sadly its not there anymore.

We cab all interpret our actions to try and justify them. Evidence does its own talking.

I am dissapointed that people have been inconvenienced by this.

I put this thread here not to revel in some false glory but because I genuinely felt that if there is any group of people who can offer polite and informed feedback to me its here.

If any of you think that the blame lies with me then feel free to say. That is why I put this thread here "SHOULD I FEEL GUILTY?"

All I am interested in working out is that from an insurance point of view do I have a claim to answer to or is this fault on both sides.

I can see just how much of a hot potato this thread is becoming sadly.

Dan W

In Fact no need to offer your feedback. I shouldn't have posted the thread. Thanks all the same.

I have PM'd Yojo to invite him to talk in private.

I have asked the mods to take down the thread but even if they dont I wont be posting on it anymore.

Regards the accident I will let the police or insurers decide who's to blame.

Thanks again to those who did offer feedback.