Alreyt everyone, got myself a sti ppp 03 and im wanting to find some more info about getting it mapped this summer, as you lads..and lasses are in my area (from Tarn...or Barnsley) I thoguht id ask around in here 1st....any tips anyone?


Also just wondered, its meant to be running the 305bhp they claim they do, probably lower as Ive heard some were only getting 290bhp on the rollers etc, but as its already got the ppp - so uprated fuel pump, de-catted save the sports cat in the downpipe and had the ECU played around with by Prodrive (I think) what gains could I expect in both torque and hp?

 

The PPP map is a generic map and a few more horses could be liberated by a bespoke map, but I'd recommend making a few more mods to really reap some dividends. Some PPP'd cars accept the map better than others. Our own Steve Chaps 03STiPPP was awful, whereas Dazza's was awesome.
Alternatively, you could look at improving the handling to suit the already impressive and capable power. Almost compulsory is a Whiteline uprated rear ARB with solid droplinks, which is considered by many to be the best pound/benefit mod you can do. Look at a 22mm if you're last of the late-brakers and tail-happy, or a 24mm if you are smooth and progressive. Eibach springs can move things on further, but a good set of coilovers will sort things much better, and provide adjustability to tailor the handling to your driving or the conditions.
Also give some thought to your tyres. I used to run RE070's through the dry months, but switched to Toyo's in winter so I was rarely compromised for grip by the weather. Vredestein Sessanta are a superb all weather alternative. Just remember, no matter how much power you have, the car is still connected to the road by just 4 small pieces of rubber !
Your own driving abilities are also worth looking at. Like everyone, I thought I was a good driver, but a few hours with a professional tutor can make your car much faster than an extra 100bhp. After 6 hours with a Police Class 1 pursuit driver my turn in speed on one specific corner went from 70mph to 130 The best bit about this though is that you take the expenditure with you into every car you drive or own thereafter

No track places left, but if you want to come along and watch and meet everybody, we have the WYIOC bi-annual Blyton trackday next weekend.

 

Thanks for the reply mate, I plan on stopping up at Squires over the coming months at some point, meant to last yr tbh with the WRX i have but never made it up.

Ive often thought about some driving lessons with professional tutors, have you got any contact info and prices for what you did mate, or even any additional info on the subject?

 

I'll get back to you as I need to contact the guy who taught me discretely about a few other things. If he's still doing it and willing I'll let you know.

 

That would be much appreciated mate

 

Jimmy, as for mapping; There's plenty of mapping options around. From home based pro's who'll buy whatever software you need (eg Ecutek) and map your car to within an inch of its potential to our own AET Turbos who do Haltech mapping and have fantastic Dyno facilities. These guys (depending on your wallet depth) will give you anything you ask for. It will possibly mean removing your current PPP map and giving you something bespoke and in keeping with the car or helping upgrade any parts to give you the power you want. They may even be able to allow you to switch between the two...

Not sure if Rick @RE Motorsports maps? Or knows a man who can?

Both of these guys above will be able to help with both the advising and the doing...

Further afield in Chesterfield there's The Scoobyclinic who'll also advise, map and dyno your car too.

People here will have some great advice and experience with certain software, mapping and ancillary tuning to help balance the map (mines been done by Powerstation in Tewkesbury with an Ecutek map), but due to the many, many options open to you, to the type of driving you'll want to do and to the type of car you ultimately want to own, then Andy or Ellie at AET will be best placed to advise properly. As will Rick @RE Motorsports.

IMO, Corradoboy is spot on that power should go hand in hand with the handling and I'm in his camp where handling is far more usable and beneficial than outright power for day to day use.. but there's people here who'll disagree....

In the meantime, I'm sure (and I hope) that Paul Crafts, Sticky, DC and others who know more about the mapping pro's and cons will be along shortly to give their very able opinions....

HTH..

 

And still not be able to keep up with some of us with lesser power But, as long as they can brag on here and down 't pub about their new higher number and how much it cost to achieve

 

Power has its place however. Paul's car for example went from daily runner to stripped out and serious Time Attack and drag strip machine with 500+ BHP. It was no longer properly usable on the road and that was a decision he and Debs took..

The reason most tuners stay at around the 330-350 figure is that this is point where the car is most usable, most reliable AND within the budget of most people. Take it above that and the all those points of interest start to become stressed. Usability is a largely subjective topic to a certain level, but the reliability issue isn't as Paul and Ian can testify. Fuel consumption may drop like a stone, but the final piece of expense is only an issue to those with budgetary constraints. If you can afford several to tens of thousands for some heavy modifications and are happy to take the hits on usability and reliability to get something very special and unique, then all power to your elbow.

We'd be a poorer and less interesting place if we didn't have people pushing the boundaries of performance regardless of the downsides.... It's not all about Black and White... you can't put a value on what's in Paul Crafts' head, heart and veins... (please no Jokes about the contents being small, hard and alcoholic... )

Jimmy. To start moving beyond about 350 (dependent upon the MY and driving you do) then you have to start looking at moving the intercooler, changing the Turbo and increasing the fueling. Plus start looking at all the other stressed parts like clutches, gear boxes, pistons and heads etc etc...

What you thinking of having done?

 

.....sliding off at the hairpin and was then overtaken by the diesel Skoda Twice

Credit where it's due though, Paul and Ian's cars were/are the biggest power machines in the club, and the engineering was/is a testament to their hopes, dreams, commitment and wallets, along with the companies whom created both machines. Not my cup of tea, but impressive to observe and admire. I remember Chris who turned up at Ladybower that night night with his 580+bhp bugeye which would monster most on the strip, but he admitted that on a normal road he wouldn't stand a chance against a well sorted car like Al's (or my old WRX) as he would spend half his time reigning in the power and correcting ****-ups, and the other half nursing the engine with his right foot to save the gearbox from exploding, clutch disintegrating and internal becoming externals.

I believe Rick at RE has been using Pat Herbourne for mapping, but I cannot be sure. I know Howard at HDC has used him, and he is the usual guy at Scoobyclinic. Andy Forest (AF Performance), Richard Bulmer (Tracktive) and Bob Rawle (BR Developments) are the top guys.

 

if your just planning a remap then figures are usually around 330bhp to 350bhp with simular torque.

if you want to up power futher then around 400bhp is ruffly seen as safe for internals but to get to there your looking at upgraded turbo most now use the md321h then injectors 650 and gt spec2 headers and decat exhaust and maybe swapping the fuel pump to a walbro 255 and inwing induction like the hyperflow one.
you'l be ok staying with the sti top mount as you only really need to swap the intercooler when your looking at 450bhp (as a certain andy forrest last time i was there was running 470bhp on his spec c bugeye with sti intercooler) but saying that if you want to do hard trackdays then your best upgrading the intercooler for safety as you'l be running higher temps etc for longer but for the odd blasts its fine.

clutch wise i'm on standard clutch and running 392bhp. if i remember correctly the standard clutch can take 400lbft as long as you don't do launchs as its torque that kills clutches.

i always recommend andy forrest for mapping does mine and wayne's scooby's car but he does live in port seton near edinburgh but he does travel but it costs £200 extra but he offers group buys if you can get enough people so brings cost down. or use bob rawle top mapper but he's in swindon but its all down to who you trust and if you want to travel etc

hope above helps and i didn't go on too much

 

Hi and welcome, Jimmy !

Looks like you stirred-up the locals

My best value mod is the Whiteline adjustable rear anti-roll bar with drop-links ! Cures understeer, or gives you oversteer if you want to play...

The problem is that your first re-map will be about £650 (+VAT) because Ecutek take about £200 as a licence fee.... this means that if you are doing it, it may be best to have a "set" of mods as a target.

With a cat back 3" system and a decent air filter yours could make 330 bhp, if not a bit more, add an unequal length manifold (a.k.a set of headers) and you may get to 360 bhp and stronger mid-range torque. After that it's a bigger turbo !

Don't overlook the brakes, IF your's are tired, have a look at Performance Friction, they are cheaper than Subaru parts, but way better, and last well too !

HTH

Duncan

 

wow, fellas, thanks for the responses, better than I thought, and much appreciated btw.

Im looking at just getting it mapped to start with as if im right in thinking, the uprated stuff the sti has can handle 340bhp or so without any problems...correct me if im wrong but thats the conclusions I seem to have drawn from reading up etc??

IMO, atm around 340-350bhp would be more than enough, I probably drive the car 2-3 times per week tbh, because of work etc, obviously that will increase in the summer when its lighter for longer but as you can appreciate the supposed 305bhp ive got now is a nice step up from the 220 or so my WRX has got (still for sale btw ) so im still gettign used to that extra power.

Im not sure im ready for any major mods atm, was just thinking along the lines of a mapp, but im sure as we all do, we get caught up in wanting to improve it time and time again, so maybe within the next year ill look at more handling, suspension etc, some increased torque and power would be good for the immediate future.

Thanks guys, btw, looking at a few of your cars etc, Ive seen a fair few of you lot about, I tend to work in the Wakey, Normy, Cas area at work (Northern Gas Networks) so if you see any white Vivario's flashing, just remember its this tool...lol

 

Hiya mate, would the cat back 3" and an air filter lift it to 330bhp without the map? as it supposedly sits at 305hp now....

I have the gold Brembo's atm, which seem ok for what im doing, but I will take a look at Performance Friction

 

to answer above no more power and i know from reading whats mappers have said about ppp kits highest figures they saw was 290bhp average was 280bhp so when you have a remap you'l notice a big increase

 

Thanks bud, I know that many have said they never come in at the supposed 305bhp and they are nearer to 280-290, id be happy with a map if it got me upto 330-340 or so with maybe one or two extra pieces.

Would anyone recommend a decent airfilter or stick with the sti one I have, which are meant to be ok on their own?

Truth be told, when I sell the other WRX, ill prolly give myself a grand to play with inc the re-map.

Also......sorry for all the questions ....but the paintwork IMO isn't waht it should be, any good garages around here that do touch ups etc etc that any of you lads can recommend

 

MY 04 Sti with PPP gave 250bhp at the wheels at AET, whats that at the fly?

 

In tests by Scoobymag, and by SNet regular Harvey Smith, there was little to nothing to be gained performance-wise from an after-market air-filter. Products from Green, K&N, STi, HKS and ITG were all compared for flow and filtration against the OE paper item. The worst in both categories was the STi item, which also is the only after-market item which is serviceable (replace each service). Performance increases were negligible at 1-2bhp if anything, and although some minor power increases were seen, many of the filters also created wild fuelling characteristics which were undesirable. To surmise, the OE intake and filter set-up is perfectly adequate for up to around 400bhp, and the only justification for an after-market filter is to save a few pounds at service time with a lifetime (cleanable) unit such as the Green, K&N (both cotton gauze) or HKS (foam, and best for filtration).
There are a few places recommended by club members. Alton Cars, a guy called Grant who's local, and many have used Scoobyclinic. Those who've used them will comment on their quality, prices and contact details I'm sure.

 

Jimmy PF fit the Brembo's !

DunxC

 

I sense he's gonna chase numbers over handling, just like everyone else

 

It's your duty to inform the bretheren Father Dave...

You will note I started with the Whiteline "ad"...

LOL

DunxC

 

Jimmy. A few of us have used Grant Leslie. Local lad in Ossett always a good job at affordable prices. Mention you came from here..

Grant Leslie
GHL Bodyworks
Church Street
Ossett
07733 071307

Alton Cars are a Top Quality outfit in Leeds where they mainly do insurance repairs. More expensive than Grant but have all the ovens for the big jobs and will lend you a car. Ask for Ian and mention the club again.

You're also right on the 350 figure. That's the agreed limit for your money and current driving style. Mines a daily drive at around 330 / 320 from an Ecutek map with no other engine Mods apart from a filter I won at the NBO (). With the right driving I can get 250-270 Miles per 50 Litres (when the light comes on with another 10 or so left). I get 300 on a Motorway drive so the map shouldn't affect MPG. Definitely consider the handling route at the same time .

Dave, I do remember Chris. Fantastic car but simply too much for the road. Blyton's also not a circuit for big power cars and is suited to slower, smoother and precise driving... Paul's (was) & Chris's etc are proper circuit cars. Saying all that, the stunning RCM and Litchfield cars at TOTB (not sure where Andy F finished up on the handling circuit) are a fantastic blend of Power and handling. Would be interesting to see them on the road on a run to get an idea of their real world usability.

 

andy came 20th with a time of 39.35 and olly won it with 36.66 think it was. but did hear andy was thinking of adding some handling stuff for this year with other mods but i know when talking to him he mainly likes the 1/4 mile so who knows.

but for good handling your looking about 2 to 3 grand eg uprated arb's good coil overs like exe-tc and don't think its really needed on a 350bhp car. it will improve it but not needed but it's worth upgrading arb's

 

Cheers mate. Interesting that this shows the compromise needed between the 1/4 mile specialists and the handling cars. I'd agree that to do it all properly the costs will out of Jimmy's initial budget.

The T25 handling package fitted to mine is about £1,800 from Powerstation. But I'd suggest simply transforms the car more than say a power hike from 330 to 400. especially if I'm driving it daily.

Stage 3 - T25 Spec Kit
AST Sport-Line Suspension Kit
Rear Adjustable Roll Bar (24mm I think)
Anti-Lift Kit
Front Adjustable Roll Bar (24mm I think)
4-Wheel Alignment
£1450* + VAT

Precious Metal will fit ARB's as I'm sure Rick will. How much for these items alone? Jimmy may be able to get a map (not sure how much Andy charges for a Haltech map at AET?) and a set of these to get a good starting balance and within his £1k limit.

 

i think to get the best out of the car you need to do a good suspension package etc but you don't have to go to coil overs to get a good alround car mines only got whiteline arbs,strut bars, h bar and prodrive springs which aint too bad handling wise but with a good coil over set as well it would give me more confidence going into corners etc but going from 330 to 400 you can tell the difference as it pulls very differently and is ok as a daily drive as mine is but depends what you want more power on demand or faster corner speed.
but nowadays with traffic you can't do either

i think if i was to pick my ideal set up it would have to be 500bhp and exe-tc coil overs with other mods i have and that would be a seriously fast road car

 

yeah its got em mate already

 

I apologise fellas, I will start reading up on handling, lol, im sure you were all the same once, we all want some raw power to put everyone in their place but Im not silly enough to disregard you lads telling me about the handling/suspension etc, you've been drivin them a lot longer than me so know the score.

I am very interested in doing some advanced driving to know how to properly handle the car etc, besides it being fun its also being a little more responsible IMO too, too many ppl with fast cars but cannot drive for **** I suppose.

I think the initial thing that leaned me towards a re-map over handling mods etc was the cost, if im completely honest im looking to get the bodywork in A1 conditon and then that extra bit of power, Ill be keeping this one for a good few years so ill have time to improve it, the lad I bought it off didn't really look after it 100% but i spotted the potential...lol.

The bloody gold pro drive alloys need a refurb too

Took some pics after washing her y'day and now its dirty as hell with all the rain, wind frost etc, then I come to upload them and the USB cablke is knackered


I must say though lads, you all seem a friendly bunch, thanska heap for the advice etc, Im sure ill continue to chew your ears in future

 

Swifty, I only had 261bhp, but I never had a moments bother on the road with cars quoting 400+bhp, as long as the road required a mix of a well balanced car and capable driver. Even on track it held its own and I never really felt anyone offered up a serious challenge which would have melted my credit card. The T25 set-up on Al's car is almost what I had on mine, and having driven Al's car as well as (obviously) my own, amongst many others of various power and chassis specification I know I followed the better route. I only commented a couple of nights back to Al that his car is set up as an almost perfect road weapon. My WRX's only drawbacks over Al's was the centre diff with DCCD-A, better (quick) steering and a couple of extra geometry components. The extra 60 bhp was just icing on the cake, but I did have a geo set-up done by the bloke who trains Williams F1 technicians about chassis and suspension design and alignment I am considering another Scoob, and have my eye on a few at 320-350bhp, all with awesome handling reputations such as SpecC's, Type RA-R's and T25's. I promise you one thing though, when/if I get one, my wallet will only be coming out for petrol and associated costs. It will be for driving, not an ongoing mechanical experiment or exercise in internet bragging. Having said that, I am more likely to pursue a 335D Coupe or similar, like Al. 580+ torques and 50mpg sounds like common sense to me

 

That's us! Though I have a feeling this may drag on a few more posts yet... as it's turning out to be a decent discussion.

I'd also agree with Dave that the advanced lessons will help enormously. Part of the reason for getting decent mileage out of the car, even when being driven hard, is that it's being driven with a view to setting it up prior to a bend and progressing smoothly, rather than 'brake and go'.

I too did the same day lesson as David did. The guys took us on the 250+ mile advanced Police route and gave a solid 8 Hrs worth of tuition. Previous to that I'd done and passed the IAM test which is very, very defensive and operates completely within the law. The Police Roadcraft side is a lot more aggressive and on many occassions I felt too aggressive, but on assessing the situation and planning exactly what you were about to do, including planning for things going wrong, it felt very safe. Exactly what he wanted to achieve as as he was fully aware that we would drive the cars hard and wanted us to do it safely and with a little more skill and knowledge than we were starting with. I also felt it taught me a lot about awareness and vehicle preparation prior tp making any move such as an overtaking one.

The techniques once mastered can be used all the time and find my road positioning to be different to the people who I'm usually following on the various runs. I would recommend it highly. Not sure if Dave can get hold of the person who took us out, as he's not been in the club for some time, but I would be interested in going back out and doing the 'path of least resistance' tuition that teaches you how to drive through rush hour traffic.

Swifty, I think that's the point we're making. Cars with that much power cannot be exploited properly (read fully) on the road. Sure they'll monster and pull away on long fast straights, but I've been behind such cars and they didn't pull away much and when it came to the inevitable corner, you could carry more speed through and out the other side.. As Chris said, he'd tried to follow several of us to Ladybower reservoir, but simply couldn't keep up as his 500+ was simply too much for the twisties there. Therefore a sorted handling car with a smooth driver would be worth well in excess of the 150 BHP gained.

Even the Evo Vid comparing the Lambo against the new STI proves that a handling car with less power is able to stay with vastly more power.

Impreza STI v Gallardo | Planet evo | Videos | evo

A track would be a different proposition altogether.....

 

Without wanting to digress, here's a Santa Pod link where a DMS tuned (£525 tuning option) 335D beats a M3 CSL. (The initial BHP gets the CSL away well, but the torque kicks in on the 335 to take it to the win) - Jimmy. Another thing. If you're going to tune your car get them to squeeze the Torque higher than the BHP. I did at Powerstation and it was the best decision I made that day.

YouTube - CSL & 335d at Santa Pod

335 BHP and 550+ ft/Lbs (700+ NM) and with the M Sport version you get all the suspension goodies too...

And another.... That does not sound or go like a diesel!!

YouTube - DMS 335d

 

Alan, thanks for that mate, its made me even more determined to do something like some advanced driving, I like many ahve still a lot to learn about these cars tbh, but thats the thing, when something interests me, I usually manage to learn and take it all on board.

Thanks again