I bought some secondhand 4-pot brakes, disks and pads of a reportedly 2000 STI 'red-top' 12,000 mile car - for £350.

They arrived, being what I expected as black callipers, with white subaru logos. A little rust at the edges or the callipers and disks and a .5mm wear groove on the disks made me suspect they may perhaps not be what they seem.

My local Subaru dealer fitted these to my UK MY97 5-door turbo yesterday.

The system was flushed and bled, but they reported a problem of no brake pedal pressure. They looked for leaks and found none.

The service manager said he found it strange as the hoses attached at the bottom, he said a little strange, but it seemed OK.

We then agreed to abort the job and return to my old disks and 2-pots to ensure the master cylinder was sound. No problems and a road test/days use later and things are fine.

It struck me this morning that could it have been merely the N/S and O/S callipers put on the wrong side of the car? Perhaps leaving an air-lock around the bleed nipple, hence the very soft pedal????

I'm looking at whether I should return these to the breaker (Hills - who seem to have a great attitide to returns BTW) and replace this with:

a) £575 - Godspeed new Subaru 4-pots and godspeed disks 297mm, inc Mintex(1144?) pads.

b) £750 - Godspeed new Subaru 4-pots and godspeed alu bell disks 297mm inc Mintex(1144?) pads.

c) £1000 - godspeed/scoobysport Brembo/308mm kit. Or perhaps the scoobysport AP kit.

As you can see any of the alternative options is a lot more money.

I'd like brakes with good bite and solid, sure stopping. I know the 260mm disks and 2-pots are poor, so would like to get the best value improvement towards being able to perhaps do a few spirited laps without cooking the brakes on a track day.

I'd really appreciate any suggestions/advice.

thanks

[This message has been edited by RobScreene (edited 26 August 2001).]

 

Looks like the ***** fitted them the wrong way round.

When fitted 'Subaru' will read upwards on the drivers side, and downwards on passenger.

I suggest you take it back to the dealer and get them to re-fit them properly (and free of charge of course)

James.

 

Thanks James.

I phoned the service manager this morning about this and he said he'd look into this possibility on Tuesday.

Can you give me and idea on how sure you'd be on this? I didn't see the job in progress, I'm not sure which way round the logos were.

It sounds like I was paying £52 per hour for the trainee to do the job!

One thing the service manager did on Friday was only charge me 1 hour, saying he'll refit again for only 1 hour, which is actually less than the 2.5 hours I was originally quoted. Ths is the thing I really like about my dealer. Even if they mess-up, they seem to go the right way to helping make things feel right.

Anyone heard of problems fitting 4-pots on a MY97 (other than needing 16 inch wheels)?

Is it hard to bleed the system? I changed the disks, pads and piston seals on a 1983 MK1 Golf GTI once? Do I have to worry about complications with the ABS and sensors???

Perhaps I should do the job myself this bank holiday (as well as decorating the main bedroom)? The round trip to my dealers is about 40 minutes, there two of those, plus usually a 10mins+ wait=1.5hours plus. Also, I know none of the fittings are siezed!!!

Also any recommendations for a good black calliper paint?

Your advice appreciated.
Rob.

[This message has been edited by RobScreene (edited 25 August 2001).]

 

Rob . it also sounds to me as they have fitted the calipers upside down , the bleed nipple sould be at the top , did you notice where they were bleeding from , Hope this helps , ps , the prices you have quoted include pads , Cheers , Ian , godspeedbrakes.co.uk

 

Positive about the fitting, did it myself on my Legacy Turbo. Only took half an hour (discs,pads,calipers, and bleeding)

Good Luck

James

 

I had 4 pots fitted to my MY96 with no problems, the garage charged me 1 hours labour (cos that's how long it takes maximum!!)

The only problems they had were getting the old hoses off of the rear before they fitted the braided ones, this took about 2 hours.

Stuart

 

I did the same on my 93 wrx when I fitted the 4 pots. The calipers do fit on upside down- just, but the bleed nipple should be at the top so it sounds like the've fitted them on wrong. Luckily I realised after fitting the first caliper

 

Surely to goodness a Bl88dy dealer should know which way up the damn calipers should go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It never ceases to amaze me how people can get something so simple wrong, some think that the nipple should go at the bottom to let the fluid out, NO, it's to let the air out, not the fluid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Thanks guys.

Wow, Ian I dodn't know those prices included pads, that's excellent news.

It feels like I should do this job tomorrow, myself.

I'll buy 2 litres of dot5, as I'm not totally sure they put dot5 in (it went on the card as dot5/upgraded brake fluid)

Is it hard to bleed the system?

Is there a bleed order? Do I need to bleed the backs, even if they are untouched?

Is it RL, RR, FL, FR as that's finally the one nearest the master cylinder? Or is it the other way?

Do I have to worry about complications with the ABS and sensors???

thanks a bunch,
Rob.

 

Rob
The first thing to say is that these things aren't rocket science, don't worry about the ABS you won't even touch that.
Have you got to chance the Hoses? If so take the original caliper off, and get the new caliper fitted (the right way up) And then lastly change the hoses, so that the system isn't allowed to weep for too long, that way you probably won't have to bleed the backs.
I would bleed each side when you've fitted the hoses, so that the air that is in the system can't seep back up the line, if you've done it right you'll only need about 6-10 pumps on the pedal, when you're done you should notice a nice firm pedal.
Any probs ask on here, 'some' people know what we're doing, even if the main dealers don't! Ron

 

hi
they sound like they were fitted upside down, i used to have a 97 and i fitted 4 pots myself, really easy, even uses the standard hoses if you want to
mark

 

Rob they were definately fitted upside down,i did exactly the same thing about 4 wks ago,had no pedal whatsoever,removed the calipers and switched sides,bleed nipple to the top and then they were perfect.
Made the other mistake of fitting the anti-rattle spring clip upside down too so when i touched the brake pedal going forward there was a tapping noise from the pads!!!!!
All okay now
Hope this helps
Darren

 

Thanks guys, your advice and experience is invaluable to me.

I'm going to do this tomorrow morning, if the weather holds. I just hope any problems show before I go on a week's trip to Ireland 4-up on Wednesday night!

It'd probably make most sense to many people (inc my Wife) to leave the half worn disks and 2-pots in-place until after the week long trip.

It's just the thought of lots of driving with those 4-pots bedding in! Ahhh. That's got to be worth the hassle/risk!

I'll try to get some pics to help others in future if I can.

Thanks Ron, no hose changes planned. I've heard mixed comments about braded hoses. I'd rather stay standard than mod the car too much, as it may put off a future purchaser. It's my understanding that the biggest benefit of braded hoses is to reduce the chance of loosing brake fluid on a track by a ripped line if a corner gets smashed. I think I should probably go for a master cylinder support bracket before braded hoses if I wanted to improve pedal feel???

I have read dot5 has a higher boiling point, but takes in water quicker than the standard dot4. What service intervals do you folks with dot5 brake fluid use between flushing the system?

thanks again,
Rob.

[This message has been edited by RobScreene (edited 26 August 2001).]

 

Done.

MY97 49,000 mile 2-pots (275mm disks half worn) replaced with:
12,000 mile 4-pots (295mm slightly worn).

They went on fine (the right way round). I'll mention this to my dealer!

The Lucas 5.1 fluid - 1 litre =£9.99 states a 2-year replacement interval.

5 miles without braking, then 30 miles on motorway gentle braking, checked disks cleaning-up properly, then 15 miles trying a few banzai stops from 70mph.

My god! What an improvement. I don't know what the pads are, they looked like new, whereas the disks were 1mm worn. I guess they may be just standard MY00 STI???

Both initial bite and absolute stopping power are great; on the public road.

I can't vouch for track work, but for just twice the cost of a new set of standard MY97 pads, I'm really impressed.

Thanks for all the help and advice.
regards,
Rob.

 

I'll give you a few months, and you'll be coming back for more

 

I'm not sure Ron.

I think that depends on if I have the bottle to take the car on to a trackday.

I was planning on getting some godspeed alu bell 297mm disks when these standard STI ones appear half worn. But they feel quite good enough for me until the track calls, especially as there's no vibration or noise off them.

I'd even say that a noise during hard cornering might be gone now, perhaps that was from the old callipers/pads that 4-pots allow more movement of the roadwheel hub/disk before rubbing?

I'd love to go to a trackday, it's just I'm not sure what it'll do to the car engine/brakes/suspension. I have a feeling I'd end up pushing the car like Gran Tourismo. But on the other hand, what other use is 200bhp+ with turbo lag at low engine speeds, where I used to drive most other cars at (ok, Rover 220GTI excepted, but that deserved and needed truly thrashing till it died).

At least now I have a reasonably safe option for brakes, as a track beginner. I think I'd have a while finding racing lines and apexes before I need to worry about max speed up-to sharp corners.

thanks and regards,
Rob.

 

The main advantages of braided hoses are that it virtually eliminates brake travel.
There is no rubber to expand,i've just done this got the goodridge lines for £52 inc vat.

Darren