Doogsy

Just got pair of 4 pots sold as coming off a P1.
Seem to be a different pad to my MY99 4 pots.
Anyone shed light on differences between two models.

Cheers Doug

RON

They should be identical!! unless the P1 kit is the Alcon jobbies...

messiah

Or the prodrive brake conversion...The caliper will have "Prodrive" printed on it rather than "Subaru".

Fat Boy

Prodrive and alcon conversions being the same thing of course...

If you have a standard size 294mm rotor and your caliper says subaru then the 4 pots are identical for MY99/P1, whereas the 330mm Alcon/prodrive upgrade has much bigger alloy colour calipers and, as said above, has Prodrive on the outside. Much better than the rubbish standard fit.

Iwan

Yup, i had an MY99 and a P1 with standard brakes and the front calipers are exactly the same (the ones with Subaru written on them).

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Arrrgh!!! Why do people keep referring to the std 4pots as rubbish! They are most certainly NOT rubbish!! Sure, they're not up to the standard of the Alcon or AP kits, but they work in Group N rally for Petes sake and if they're good enough for that, they're good enough for most users, especially they have no intention of taking their car on a track! It's the std road pads that are the weak link, upgrade to Pagid or similar and that would be more than adequate for most drivers.

Regards

StickyMicky

he speaks sum truths ^^^^^

Fat Boy

Group N rotors have to last for only one event at a time with competitive mileage of circa 200 even up at WRC level with lots of breaks in between stages.

Yes they will get a pasting, but the standard jobbies even with Ds3000 or Pagids etc , plus upgraded fluid etc are just too small for decent heat dissipation - discs, pads and calipers- and will die pretty quickly, even on the road, in my experience, and definitely on track where in one trackday you can end up doing equivalent and more mileage to any group N rally.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Granted the discs and pads can certainly be improved, but the std 4pots are very strong -if a little heavy- Godspeed use the std 4pots on their 330mm conversion, which they claim has superior retardation than even the mighty AP kit. I've yet to see any performance figures for the std calipers vs the likes of Brembo, AP and Alcon etc, it would be interesting!

stockcar

if your Prodrive and have that budget i would agree....................most of our customers get around a season out of discs and probs a couple of sets of pads.....................
one of our own cars has done 2trackdays, and about 4 tarmac stage rallies on the same discs with Pagid rs15 fitted.............glowing red and not a sign of warp or crack.................will probs last one more!!
alyn

bluenose172

iTrader: (2)

Standard, to me, means untouched with standard pads. In that case they are awful considering the car they are expected to stop. It was the first thing I changed on my P1, compared to the other cars I've had (172, CTR, LCR) they are just not up to the job.

Fat Boy

Alyn, I based a fair bit of my comment on my friend's experience in the BRTDA in his ex prodrive Grp N MY99 car,which is run by Gwynne's ( i used to rally but back in Grp 1/2 Escort MK1/MK2 days - so much lighter ), but generally agreed.

However I was using WRC level rallies as the ultimate distance/test for a Grp N. Most stage rallies, as you know, are far shorter and much more fragmented i.e. 10 miles here, 6 miles there, 14miles there etc. So 4 tarmac stage rallies and two track days - 400- 500 competitive miles? - with "one track day/rally left in them". Compare that to say 4-5000 miles of hard road driving ( on a "private road" etc ) and a few track days and it's easy to see that the standard, even with upgraded pads, are going to be wilting.

As the chap above says standard, i.e. calipers, pads and rotors, are the weakest link on the P1 were the first thing I changed after killing the discs in a few hundred miles from new. As I get my pads from your goodself, I now just need you to source a cheap set of Alcon bells and replacement rotors for me please!!

stockcar

can sort 'AP' style rotors no probs...............if you wanted to send me some bells to inspect then i can sort some "copies".................

with the above i was talking mainly about pads, the discs are 'as new'..............it mostly comes down to how you drive, have some customers that can almost use std discs/pads when competing!!

alyn

Fat Boy

Alyn,

I currently run the Alcon 330mm one piece, but they have apparently launched a new series of rotors for a two piece set up called the Alcon Advantage range which fit the existing Alcon/ Prodrive caliper, but they don't make the bells.... So i'm torn between getting a set of bells made up and trying the new Alcon rotors or going the AP route as you suggest. I like the Alcons when they're working, but they definitely don't like getting really hot (550+C). I'm about 2- 3000 road miles away from replacing so I'll have a dig around and come back to you. It may be the same discs but to set up some cooling ducts is the answer.

Cheers
FB

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Standard 4 pots does not inc the pads and discs as they are more or less consumables.

The 4-pots are designed to last the life of the car.

Personally think that the std 4-pots with OE discs and uprated pads makes a good setup mfor fast road and occassional track work.

Bob

Doogsy

Cheers guys
Will get a proper look at the old set up tomorrrow if I get time.

Interesting debate on the merits of standard against aftermarket
Personally with uprated pads, i have used Mintex 1555 exclusively since the standard pads gave up, and black diamond discs, I've had no probs with stopping power or fade off nor on track (Knockhill and Kames)
Anyway brakes just slow you down what use is that
Oh just remembered did give EBC redstuff a go once, never again...lasted about 1/2 a session at Knockhill before there was only metal left...made form chocolate and wood shavings I believe
doug