sti_rye84

not long had my sti and having issues with brake fade anyone had simlar problems or know of best discs and pads to get rid of it had civic before and used brembo discs and pads and they worked but this has them standard any help?

stockcar

long soft pedal or very hard pedal with no stopping power??

could be as simple as the fluid is degraded and needs flushed/changed, poor quality pads, etc??

a little more info abpout exact set-up and problems would try and pin-point for you

alyn

sti_rye84

brake fluid is fine there just getting hot far too quick then peadal goes soft if am giving it some discs smoking and v hot so just wanted recomendations on changing them for best ones really

360ste

iTrader: (1)

The civic is a lighter car so the brakes would have felt better. Look in the group buy section as there are a number of ones for pads and/or discs. Easiest route initially would be a harder pad.

budd

iTrader: (5)

as stated you need a pads more suited to the temps been generated, but be aware that pads that will easily deal with these temps often have poor cold temp performance are noisy, dirty and will wear your discs much more than OE. The Yanks rate Hawk pads for both street and AutoX.
Also the soft pedal sound like a fluid problem, so unless you have changed the fluid yourself I'd change it for something like Motul RBF 600 or AP Racing fluid just to be sure.

Anders_WR1

iTrader: (8)

I fitted EBC turbo groove discs, 5.1 fluid, goodridge hoses and Pagid RS29 pads on all four corners which was a massive improvement over the standard set up. The pads sqeak like a biatch though when warmed up.

Now I got 400bhp I'm thinking on an AP 6 pot upgrade for even better stopping power.

Anders

budd

iTrader: (5)

sounds like you've got a good set up, you really shouldn't be having the problems you are, what tyres are you using?
I don’t think going to 6 pots will solve your problems, ultimate stopping power is more to do with tyres than brake components, the brake hardware simply dissipates the heat created by the process, if your tyres provide X amount of grip then once the brakes overcome that grip you get a locked wheel and no retardation at that point it doesn’t matter how strong your brakes are you’re a passenger.
As the gold finish on your brembos faded or discoloured? I’ve seen the colour change when seriously overheated
.Proper track work on slicks or R888s will probably overwhelm the stock Brembos even with up rated pads but, even very ‘spirited’ driving on normal UK public roads shouldn’t really trouble your system, on the road brakes get time to recover, lose some of the heat generated

Obviously it depends on the type of driving your doing and the type of driver you are, riding the brakes up to the apex can cause problems, the best technique is to got sharply on the brakes and get completely off them has soon as you can turn in ‘riding’ the brakes causes excess heat build up.
There’s a lot of excellent info on here:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=32

I've justed edited it to add this a direct quote from the yank forum

'1) The brakes don't stop the vehicle - the tires do. The brakes slow the rotation of the wheels and tires. This means that braking distance measured on a single stop from a highway legal speed or higher is almost totally dependent upon the stopping ability of the tires in use - which, in the case of aftermarket advertising, may or may not be the ones originally fitted to the car by the OE manufacturer.

2) The brakes function by converting the kinetic energy of the car into thermal energy during deceleration - producing heat, lots of heat - which must then be transferred into the surroundings and into the air stream.

The amount of heat produced in context with a brake system needs to be considered with reference to time meaning rate of work done or power. Looking at only one side of a front brake assembly, the rate of work done by stopping a 3500-pound car traveling at 100 Mph in eight seconds is 30,600 calories/sec or 437,100 BTU/hr or is equivalent to 128 kW or 172 Hp. The disc dissipates approximately 80% of this energy. The ratio of heat transfer among the three mechanisms is dependent on the operating temperature of the system. The primary difference being the increasing contribution of radiation as the temperature of the disc rises. The contribution of the conductive mechanism is also dependent on the mass of the disc and the attachment designs, with disc used for racecars being typically lower in mass and fixed by mechanism that are restrictive to conduction. At 1000oF the ratios on a racing 2-piece annular disc design are 10% conductive, 45% convective, 45% radiation. Similarly on a high performance street one-piece design, the ratios are 25% conductive, 25% convective, 50% radiation.

3) Repeated hard stops require both effective heat transfer and adequate thermal storage capacity within the disc. The more disc surface area per unit mass and the greater and more efficient the mass flow of air over and through the disc, the faster the heat will be dissipated and the more efficient the entire system will be. At the same time, the brake discs must have enough thermal storage capacity to prevent distortion and/or cracking from thermal stress until the heat can be dissipated. This is not particularly important in a single stop but it is crucial in the case of repeated stops from high speed - whether racing, touring or towing.

4) Control and balance are at least as important as ultimate stopping power. The objective of the braking system is to utilize the tractive capacity of all of the tires to the maximum practical extent without locking a tire. In order to achieve this, the braking force between the front and rear tires must be nearly optimally proportioned even with ABS equipped vehicles. At the same time, the required pedal pressure, pedal travel and pedal firmness must allow efficient modulation by the driver.

5) Braking performance is about more than just brakes. In order for even the best braking systems to function effectively, tires, suspension and driving techniques must be optimized'

there's lots of other stuff on there it's well worth a read.

MikeWood

It really depends on pad spec. Could the previous owner have fitted some cheap pads? I recently drove a car fitted with pads from a major pad manufacturer that suffered fade on the third stop from 100 down to 50mph!! And before anyone asks, yes it was on a private test track......

Try some decent pads first would be my suggestion.


Mike

budd

iTrader: (5)

I guess it's possible the previous owner was less than honest and fitted motor factor specials rather than the Pagids this would explain alot, but it's easy to check just by pulling a pad out.
If it has got the RS29 pads in they should be more than up to the job, they are race/trackday spec and capable of handling constant temperatures of around 630°C (1.166°F) there's no way these should be fading, it's more likely to be the fluid boiling IMHO

D1CCY

Going back to Alyns original suggestions a soft pedal is more likely a fluid problem. I have RS29 pads in AP 6 pots and there's only ever short pedal travel and never a hint of fade on track, these are very good (and very expensive) pads.

scarey

I had a 2003 Sti and had same problem.

Before first trip to the 'ring went to Powerstation and got braided hoses, 5.1 fluid and whatever pads they recommended for my trip. Sorry cant remember what they were.

I still got brake fade when I was there. Went back to Powerstation and they told me that the 2003 Sti's - bearing in mind this is the year that model came out - had the hubs made out of an alloy compound which got very hot and the heat pushed the calipers away so you had to pump the brakes a bit to get them to work. From 2004 onwards they used a different alloy which fixed the problem.

Fuzz

News to me

stockcar

what a load of tosh........the STi came out with those brakes at 2001 anyhows.....

generally speaking a soft pedal indicates fluid fade (whether the cause is old fluid, overheating brakes or whatever)
once you have faded/over-heated the fluid it must be changed as it will only get more compromised and easier to reach the "fade" point

alyn

budd

iTrader: (5)

another internet myth created ??

D1CCY

No. I think Alyn has torpedoed it pretty good. More to the point STi Brembo calipers are a bit budget clunky.

FWIW I boiled the fluid in my kit/track car (what was in it when I bought it S/H so more fool me) quite alarming at 130 at Elvington. Since changed the fluid to 5.1 with new pads and seems OK now. Obviously its wise to change the fluid but from a curiousity/scientific point of view I struggle to see why the fluid should be worse for a boiling episode?

Fuzz

Aye, load of old bollocks that certainly didn't come from us, I asked everyone when I got in this morning. Got the same reply!