Curing brake fade on 275bhp WRX
23 March 2011, 10:02 AM
#1
Curing brake fade on 275bhp WRX
Having had a full exhaust system fitted and a JGM remap, my WRX is now running about 275bhp, and although that isn't huge power, I'm finding that with a bit of spirited driving I'm getting far too much brake fade.
I'm running Braketech discs on the front, and Godspeed grooved discs on the back, with Kevlar pads all round, and braided lines.
I've had yellow stuffs on the car before but whilst the initial bite was better, I still found these suffered from the same fade issues.
I'm now wondering what to do next. I have a set of winter tyres on some OEM 17" WRX alloys, and I know these won't clear Brembos without spacers, something I don't really want to do, so I'm wondering what other options are available to me at a reasonable outlay.
I'm not looking to spend much more than £500 if I can avoid it, and whilst K-Sports would fit, I'd be looking at nearly £825 for a 330mm disc kit with pads, and I'm thinking would be overkill for the car
Any ideas? I'm wondering if a set of the new EBC blue stuff's might be worth a try...
I'm running Braketech discs on the front, and Godspeed grooved discs on the back, with Kevlar pads all round, and braided lines.
I've had yellow stuffs on the car before but whilst the initial bite was better, I still found these suffered from the same fade issues.
I'm now wondering what to do next. I have a set of winter tyres on some OEM 17" WRX alloys, and I know these won't clear Brembos without spacers, something I don't really want to do, so I'm wondering what other options are available to me at a reasonable outlay.
I'm not looking to spend much more than £500 if I can avoid it, and whilst K-Sports would fit, I'd be looking at nearly £825 for a 330mm disc kit with pads, and I'm thinking would be overkill for the car
Any ideas? I'm wondering if a set of the new EBC blue stuff's might be worth a try...
Last edited by MrNoisy; 23 March 2011 at 10:03 AM.
23 March 2011, 10:11 AM
#3
For £500 you have Front Brembo kit,which i think is overpriced for Brembo,if you this compare to Mitsubishi EVO market,where used Brembo you can pick up for £200..
Second option is used K-Sport which you can buy here or on other forums easily for £500-£600..
Third option will be Godspeed Big Brake conversion kit 330mm which cost around £550..
Fourth option is EBC BlueStuff NDX,which i found as good,really depend on your future plans upgrading your car or just keeping in 275bhp region,because if you are go for bigger power you will need better brakes...
Jura
Second option is used K-Sport which you can buy here or on other forums easily for £500-£600..
Third option will be Godspeed Big Brake conversion kit 330mm which cost around £550..
Fourth option is EBC BlueStuff NDX,which i found as good,really depend on your future plans upgrading your car or just keeping in 275bhp region,because if you are go for bigger power you will need better brakes...
Jura
23 March 2011, 10:17 AM
#4
Thanks guys.
I'm probably not going to take it much beyond that, so maybe I'll try the bluestuff.
Steve - you reckon 5.1 fluid then? Recommend one?
The brake fade's the biggest issue - I don't get a spongy pedal - I just get virtually no bite after 3 or 4 hard stops.
I'm probably not going to take it much beyond that, so maybe I'll try the bluestuff.
Steve - you reckon 5.1 fluid then? Recommend one?
The brake fade's the biggest issue - I don't get a spongy pedal - I just get virtually no bite after 3 or 4 hard stops.
23 March 2011, 10:29 AM
#6
HI
If your just getting brake fade then its the pads not doing the job , if it was fluid the pedal would sink.
The NDX bluestuff pads would make a big difference to the kevlar pads with hard driving , but a huge difference would be my 335mm kit , these come with NDX pads but are wider than the standard shape pads , so you get more pad material on the discs.
I can supply you our 335mm grooved 2 piece discs and anodised bells , mounting bracket kit , calipers fitting kit , and oversized NDX bluestuff pads for £550 including VAT , and on the road you will NOT fade these at all , you would be very hard pushed , nigh on impossible , to fade them on the track
This kit is the largest you will fit under your standard WRX wheels
Cheers Ian
If your just getting brake fade then its the pads not doing the job , if it was fluid the pedal would sink.
The NDX bluestuff pads would make a big difference to the kevlar pads with hard driving , but a huge difference would be my 335mm kit , these come with NDX pads but are wider than the standard shape pads , so you get more pad material on the discs.
I can supply you our 335mm grooved 2 piece discs and anodised bells , mounting bracket kit , calipers fitting kit , and oversized NDX bluestuff pads for £550 including VAT , and on the road you will NOT fade these at all , you would be very hard pushed , nigh on impossible , to fade them on the track
This kit is the largest you will fit under your standard WRX wheels
Cheers Ian
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23 March 2011, 11:00 AM
#8
Just out of interest,could it be something other than the pads.There was a thread on here about grooved discs and kevlar pads and from reading through the came very highly rated.
23 March 2011, 11:19 AM
#10
Thanks for your comments everyone.
Ian - Bob recommended bluestuff pads too - and I got the same comments from JS Engineering regarding that the fluid's not the problem if the pedal isn't spongy
.
I've been offered a full set of Brembo calipers and discs for a very good price so may well go with that and try and get hold of a set of second hand STI wheels.
I'm assuming the Brembos will be far better than the standard WRX 4 pots, but would welcome thoughts.
Ian - Bob recommended bluestuff pads too - and I got the same comments from JS Engineering regarding that the fluid's not the problem if the pedal isn't spongy
.I've been offered a full set of Brembo calipers and discs for a very good price so may well go with that and try and get hold of a set of second hand STI wheels.
I'm assuming the Brembos will be far better than the standard WRX 4 pots, but would welcome thoughts.
Last edited by MrNoisy; 23 March 2011 at 11:20 AM.
24 March 2011, 07:37 AM
#13
Could you give me some more info on your kit?
I was under the impression that the STI brembos were 326mm discs front and 316mm rear, so a 32mm and 26mm increase on the WRX discs (I think), plus bigger calipers so it kinda made sense to me that this would be a load better.
I note your kit is a two piece disc - does this improve disc cooling?
I think as well the thought of running oversized pads in a caliper not designed to take those pads is putting me off, and also the fact that this may unbalance braking on the car more if I don't uprate the rears, BUT I'm a relative novice to this stuff so please feel free to correct me - no offence intended by any of the above, just doing my research before I make any decisions
Last edited by MrNoisy; 24 March 2011 at 07:41 AM.
24 March 2011, 08:49 AM
#14
HI
Our front discs are 335mm x 32mm , the standard STi discs are 326mm x 30mm , so a significant increase in diameter and thickness , these would work well with the 2 pot 290mm rears you have , but better again if you fitted the rear STi rear brakes.
We have loads of customers running our 335mm front kit on classics with standard sized rear brakes with no issues , and we have been selling this kit for a long time.
The Subaru 4 pot calipers are a very good caliper , with good sized pistons , they are just fitted to a too small a disc , fitting this kit changes all that.
Yes a 2 piece disc and bell are lighter than a one piece same sized disc so you get less unsprung weight so your suspension gets an easier time , aluminium will dissipate heat quicker so you get less heat build up , and less heat into the bearings.
You can run a standard sized pad in this kit , but then the performance would drop compared to the larger pads , yes it looks a bit strange to have the pad come out of the calipers 10mm , but this doesn't cause any problems whatsoever , and the pads wear down perfectly even , a pad will never bend causing uneven wear , we even have the brand new bluestuff NDX pads made in this shape to supply in the kit.
You could increase the rears by just fitting NDX pads so you run them front and rear
This really is a simple kit to fit , in which you dont need to change wheels , that works better than the STi front kit , end of !
Cheers Ian
Our front discs are 335mm x 32mm , the standard STi discs are 326mm x 30mm , so a significant increase in diameter and thickness , these would work well with the 2 pot 290mm rears you have , but better again if you fitted the rear STi rear brakes.
We have loads of customers running our 335mm front kit on classics with standard sized rear brakes with no issues , and we have been selling this kit for a long time.
The Subaru 4 pot calipers are a very good caliper , with good sized pistons , they are just fitted to a too small a disc , fitting this kit changes all that.
Yes a 2 piece disc and bell are lighter than a one piece same sized disc so you get less unsprung weight so your suspension gets an easier time , aluminium will dissipate heat quicker so you get less heat build up , and less heat into the bearings.
You can run a standard sized pad in this kit , but then the performance would drop compared to the larger pads , yes it looks a bit strange to have the pad come out of the calipers 10mm , but this doesn't cause any problems whatsoever , and the pads wear down perfectly even , a pad will never bend causing uneven wear , we even have the brand new bluestuff NDX pads made in this shape to supply in the kit.
You could increase the rears by just fitting NDX pads so you run them front and rear
This really is a simple kit to fit , in which you dont need to change wheels , that works better than the STi front kit , end of !
Cheers Ian
24 March 2011, 12:09 PM
#17
I would expect you to say that Bob , as its all you have to offer , but then your not listening to the customer who has a budget , what your recommending , along with wheels , you have just trebled his cost
24 March 2011, 12:26 PM
#18
I would expect you to push the larger disc in the OEM conversion, good margins. 
If larger discs were the be all and end all of everything, the OP would be better off going with the fleabay 345mm disc conversion, which is similar to yours, but uses a bigger one piece disc and is cheaper. I would never use either makeshift kit on my car.
The quality of discs, carbon content, fixed vs floating, caliper quality, pad size etc etc are all very relevant.
The quality of PF discs are second to none and the Brembo calipers are better than the OEM calipers, but it's not what I recommended to the OP due to budget, so get your facts straight.
Graham already has PF discs + Brembos, are you suggesting he "upgrade" to your setup?
The OP has been offered Brembos at a very good price, no spacers needed, no pad overhangs. If it comes with discs already it will be well within budget even with NDX pads added.
Wheel cost can be offset on a like for like basis, pick up a set of used STi wheels, sell the WRX ones. Not hard too work out.
If larger discs were the be all and end all of everything, the OP would be better off going with the fleabay 345mm disc conversion, which is similar to yours, but uses a bigger one piece disc and is cheaper. I would never use either makeshift kit on my car.
The quality of discs, carbon content, fixed vs floating, caliper quality, pad size etc etc are all very relevant.
The quality of PF discs are second to none and the Brembo calipers are better than the OEM calipers, but it's not what I recommended to the OP due to budget, so get your facts straight.
Graham already has PF discs + Brembos, are you suggesting he "upgrade" to your setup?
The OP has been offered Brembos at a very good price, no spacers needed, no pad overhangs. If it comes with discs already it will be well within budget even with NDX pads added.
Wheel cost can be offset on a like for like basis, pick up a set of used STi wheels, sell the WRX ones. Not hard too work out.
24 March 2011, 01:11 PM
#19
I would make more on selling PF discs and NDX pads than I would on my own 335mm kit , I am advising that as It would give better braking , I have tried both setups.
The 345mm kit on Ebay won't fit under 17" wheels which is what the OP has , it is nothing like my kit , the ebay crap has a disc from another car , they have just elongated the stud holes to suit a Subaru PCD , the centre hole is too big so they have included a steel ring to fit them , and only half the standard pad will fit on the disc.
My kit includes our own CNC alloy bells which are a perfect fit , with no issues at all , so no , its nothing like my kit. I don't expect you as a salesman , to fully understand the engineering side of it
The OP has mentioned he has standard 17" WRX wheels , so will need spacers to fit the Brembo's , they will , as you said , not fit over them.
Do you plan on turning this into a slagging match again , I thought these came around every 6 months , I'm not interested in bitching with you , again ..
Cheers Ian
The 345mm kit on Ebay won't fit under 17" wheels which is what the OP has , it is nothing like my kit , the ebay crap has a disc from another car , they have just elongated the stud holes to suit a Subaru PCD , the centre hole is too big so they have included a steel ring to fit them , and only half the standard pad will fit on the disc.
My kit includes our own CNC alloy bells which are a perfect fit , with no issues at all , so no , its nothing like my kit. I don't expect you as a salesman , to fully understand the engineering side of it
The OP has mentioned he has standard 17" WRX wheels , so will need spacers to fit the Brembo's , they will , as you said , not fit over them.
Do you plan on turning this into a slagging match again , I thought these came around every 6 months , I'm not interested in bitching with you , again ..
Cheers Ian
24 March 2011, 01:46 PM
#21
Thank you guys for your comments. Sorry that this has provoked a bit of conflict, but hey ho - comes with the turf on SN sometimes I guess!
I can certainly say I've been given several avenues to consider.
For me it's going to boil down to what's going to be most cost-effective as I'm not particularly cash rich at the moment having just paid out for an 80k mile cambelt service and a remap!
At this stage, comments on this thread, and research I've done on forums and other sites is pointing to my brake fade issue being caused by pads which aren't up to the job, and the heat not dissipating quickly enough.
Given that I haven't historically encountered a spongy brake pedal, I suspect that whilst a two piece disc would indeed, as Ian points out, cool faster, it might be overkill in this situation where I haven't encountered the standard brake fluid boiling due to heat transfer from the discs, caliper pistons etc. I won't be using the car for track days in the near future anyway.
For this reason, I'm tempted to try a full set of blue stuff pads and uprate to 5.1 fluid, but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this.
Ian originally said it would make a big difference just switching to these pads - how much better in your opinion are these than yellow stuff?
And I suppose - how much for a full set of front and rear blue stuffs delivered guys?
Thanks
I can certainly say I've been given several avenues to consider.
For me it's going to boil down to what's going to be most cost-effective as I'm not particularly cash rich at the moment having just paid out for an 80k mile cambelt service and a remap!
At this stage, comments on this thread, and research I've done on forums and other sites is pointing to my brake fade issue being caused by pads which aren't up to the job, and the heat not dissipating quickly enough.
Given that I haven't historically encountered a spongy brake pedal, I suspect that whilst a two piece disc would indeed, as Ian points out, cool faster, it might be overkill in this situation where I haven't encountered the standard brake fluid boiling due to heat transfer from the discs, caliper pistons etc. I won't be using the car for track days in the near future anyway.
For this reason, I'm tempted to try a full set of blue stuff pads and uprate to 5.1 fluid, but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this.
Ian originally said it would make a big difference just switching to these pads - how much better in your opinion are these than yellow stuff?
And I suppose - how much for a full set of front and rear blue stuffs delivered guys?
Thanks
24 March 2011, 02:14 PM
#22
The bluestuff NDX are far better , I'm really impressed by the blue's.
We can offer you the front for £148.26
http://www.godspeedbrakes.co.uk/~god...?id_product=42
and the rears for £76.57
http://www.godspeedbrakes.co.uk/~god...?id_product=43
Both with free mainland UK P&P
Cheers Ian
We can offer you the front for £148.26
http://www.godspeedbrakes.co.uk/~god...?id_product=42
and the rears for £76.57
http://www.godspeedbrakes.co.uk/~god...?id_product=43
Both with free mainland UK P&P
Cheers Ian
24 March 2011, 03:25 PM
#23
As above, NDX are superb, do those all round with decent fluid and braided lines will be a big step up.
EBC Bluestuff NDX - Subaru 4 Pot Caliper FRONT Set - FREE Delivery
EBC Bluestuff NDX - Subaru 2 Pot Caliper Rear Set - FREE Delivery
In stock and ready for dispatch.
Lines and fluid also in stock.
Give me a call
EBC Bluestuff NDX - Subaru 4 Pot Caliper FRONT Set - FREE Delivery
EBC Bluestuff NDX - Subaru 2 Pot Caliper Rear Set - FREE Delivery
In stock and ready for dispatch.
Lines and fluid also in stock.
Give me a call
24 March 2011, 05:34 PM
#25
I ran a godspeed conversion on my WRX bug a few years ago with Pagid Blue pads (the supplied ferrodo were just too dusty LOL) and it did give a nice result 
And fitted under the WRX wheels
Shaun
And fitted under the WRX wheels
Shaun
25 March 2011, 09:23 PM
#27
